Bill McCollum, Florida
Elton Gallegly, California
Edward A. Pease, Indiana
Chris Cannon, Utah
Charles T. Canady, Florida
Bob Goodlatte, Virginia
Joe Scarborough, Florida
Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas
Howard L. Berman, California
Zoe Lofgren, California
Barney Frank, Massachusetts
Martin T. Meehan, Massachusetts

George Fishman, Chief Counsel
Jim Wilon, Counsel
Laura Baxter, Counsel
Cindy Blackston, Professional Staff
Leon Buck, Minority Counsel

Smith, Hon. Lamar, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas, and chairman, Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims
Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas

Witnesses

Anderson, Terry, Auto Mechanic, Los Angeles, CA
Armstrong, Tobin, Rancher, Kingsville, TX
Foster, Ezola, Retired School Teacher, Los Angeles, CA, Americans for Family Values
Joyal, Carol, San Jose, CA
Morfin, Angie, Salinas, CA, Mothers Taking Action Against Gang Violence
Morris, Dan, Rogers, AK, Americans for an Immigration Moratorium
Vance, Larry, Rancher, Douglas, AZ, chairman, Cochise County Concerned Citizens
Walsh, Selena, Director of Policy and Communications, League of United Latin American Citizens

Letters, Statements, Etc., Submitted For The Hearing

Anderson, Terry, Auto Mechanic, Los Angeles, CA: Prepared statement
Armstrong, Tobin, Rancher, Kingsville, TX: Prepared statement
Barnett, Roger, Sierra Vista, AZ: Prepared statement
Foster, Ezola, Retired School Teacher, Los Angeles, CA, Americans For Family Values: Prepared statement
Jackson Lee, Sheila, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas: Prepared statement
Joyal, Carol, San Jose, CA: Prepared statement
Morfin, Angie, Salinas, CA, Mothers Taking Action Against Gang Violence: Prepared statement
Morris, Dan, Rogers, AK, Americans for an Immigration Moratorium: Prepared statement
Smith, Hon. Lamar, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas, and chairman, Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims: Prepared statement
Vance, Larry, Rancher, Douglas, AZ, chairman, Cochise County Concerned Citizens: Prepared statement
Walsh, Selena, Director of Policy and Communications, League of United Latin American Citizens: Prepared statement

Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims
Committee on the Judiciary

Washington, DC.
June 10, 1999

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1:10 p.m., in Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Lamar Smith [chairman of the subcommittee] Presiding.

Present: Representatives Lamar Smith, Edward A. Pease, and Sheila Jackson Lee.

Staff Present: George Fishman, Chief Counsel; Jim Wilon, Counsel; Judy Knott, Staff Assistant; and Leon Buck, Minority Counsel.


Opening Statement Of Chairman Smith

Mr. SMITH. The Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims will come to order. First of all, I would like to recognize and acknowledge the presence of so many people who are here today. We appreciate your interest in such an important subject. This is a different type of hearing than the kind of hearing we have had before.

In this situation we have real people who have confronted personally some of the consequences of the illegal immigration that we see in our country, as opposed to having a panel of government witnesses or individuals who have never encountered some of the situations we are going to hear about.

The procedure today is that I will recognize myself and the ranking member for opening statements. Then we will go to our first panel of witnesses. We have a total of two panels, and we expect to be finished before three o'clock. I will recognize myself for my opening statement first.

The Clinton administration has halted the buildup of the border patrol that Congress mandated in 1996. Actions have consequences. Today we are going to learn the consequences of having too few Border Patrol agents to protect Americans.

People familiar with congressional hearings know that the first witnesses are usually high ranking government officials from here in Washington, D.C. Today, however, we are privileged to have witnesses who can speak from their own personal experiences about illegal immigration. Today we hear from the American people directly affected by the lack of immigration law enforcement.

Some of our witnesses can tell us about the crime that accompanies, illegal immigration, not because they have done academic studies, but because they have watched and suffered as members of their families and communities were victimized by violence and drug trafficking. They can tell us about the burdens placed on public education by illegal immigration because their children bear those burdens.

Some of our witnesses come from parts of our southwest border that have become lawless and violent and dangerous places because the administration refuses to reinforce the Border Patrol. These people live under circumstances that the rest of us can only imagine, with their property invaded and destroyed and their families afraid to go out of the house.

Other witnesses can tell us how good job opportunities in their communities have disappeared as unscrupulous employers hire illegal employees at substandard wages and working conditions. In many communities the quality of life has declined tremendously because of illegal immigration, as drugs and gangs appear in small towns that never had them before.

County budgets are overwhelmed by demands on law enforcement, education, and social services. Jobs disappear. Many long-term residents are forced to move away from the communities where they grew up. Those who appeal to the federal government for immigration law enforcement receive little or no help. Those who protest this rampant and destructive lawlessness have had their motives questioned.

This problem is not restricted to border States like Texas, California, and Arizona. From New York to Nebraska, from Florida to Washington State, American communities are feeling the effects of unprecedented illegal immigration. Conservative estimates indicate that there are at least 6 million illegal aliens residing permanently in the United States, and the number is increasing every single year.

Meanwhile, the interior enforcement strategy recently unveiled by the Immigration and Naturalization Service effectively gives up on removing illegal aliens from the United States. Except for a small fraction of convicted criminal aliens, illegal aliens have little or no fear that they will ever be deported.

It is widely known that once they get past the border illegal aliens are almost never removed from the United States. This, in turn, of course, encourages ever-greater waves of illegal immigration. Obviously, this situation cannot continue. Either the President will exercise leadership to stem the tide and remove the illegal aliens from the United States, or the present crisis will worsen with grave consequences.

Our witnesses today can shed light on the serious and growing negative impacts of illegal immigration. Their stories and the stories of millions of Americans like them deserve a response.

That concludes my opening statement. I will now recognize the ranking member, my colleague from Texas, Ms. Sheila Jackson Lee.

[The prepared statement of Chairman Smith follows:]

Prepared Statement Of Hon. Lamar Smith, A Representative In Congress From The State Of Texas, And Chairman, Subcommittee On Immigration And Claims

The Clinton Administration has halted the buildup of the Border Patrol that Congress mandated in 1996. Actions have consequences. Today we're going to learn the consequences of having too few Border Patrol agents to protect Americans.

People familiar with Congressional hearings know that the first witnesses are usually high-ranking government officials from here in Washington, DC.

Today, however, we are privileged to have witnesses who can speak from their own personal experiences with illegal immigration. Today we hear from the American people directly affected by the lack of immigration law enforcement.

Some of our witnesses can tell us about the crime that accompanies illegal immigration, not because they have done academic studies, but because they have watched and suffered as members of their families and communities were victimized by violence and drug trafficking. They can tell us about the burdens placed on public education by illegal immigration because their children bear those burdens.

Some of our witnesses come from parts of our Southwest border that have become lawless, violent and dangerous places because the Administration refuses to reinforce the Border Patrol. These people live under circumstances that the rest of us can only imagine, with their property invaded and destroyed every night and their families afraid to go out of the house.

Other witnesses can tell us how good job opportunities in their communities have disappeared as unscrupulous employers hire illegal aliens at substandard wages and working conditions.

In many communities, the quality of life has declined tremendously because of illegal immigration. Drugs and gangs appear in small towns that never had them before. County budgets are overwhelmed by demands on law enforcement, education, and social services. Jobs disappear.

Many long-time residents are forced to move away from the communities where they grew up. Those who appeal to the federal government for immigration law enforcement receive little or no help. Those who protest this rampant and destructive lawlessness have had their motives questioned.

This problem is not restricted to border states like Texas, California and Arizona. From New York to Nebraska, from Florida to Washington state, American communities are feeling the effects of unprecedented illegal immigration. Conservative estimates indicate that there are at least six million illegal aliens residing permanently in the United States, and the number is growing rapidly.

Meanwhile, the interior enforcement strategy recently unveiled by the Immigration and Naturalization Service effectively gives up on removing illegal aliens from the United States. Except for a small fraction of convicted criminal aliens, illegal aliens have little or no fear that they will ever be deported.

It is widely known that once they get past the border, illegal aliens are almost never removed from the United States. This in turn encourages ever-greater waves of illegal immigration.

Obviously, this situation cannot continue. Either the President will exercise strong leadership to stem the tide and remove the illegal aliens from the United States, or the present crisis will worsen, with grave consequences.

Each of these hearings all had one thing in common: they all discussed the negative aspects of immigration as a whole. I think we can agree Mr. Chairman that no one is really for illegal immigration. Illegal immigration has been a perennial problem in the United States. Many believe that the failure of prior Administrations to stop illegal immigration is the root cause of the recent backlash against legal immigration. The INS recently estimated that there are approximately 5 million resident illegal aliens living in the United States, defined as those who have lived here continuously for at least 12 months. Half of these resident illegal aliens came to the U.S. by illegally crossing the border. The other half entered the U.S. legally, but then overstayed the terms of their non-immigrant visas.

I have repeatedly said Mr. Chairman in hearing after hearing that we should do everything in our power to curtail illegal immigration. However, as Members of Congress we have a duty to emphasize the positive aspects of immigration as a whole, and this Subcommittee should meet and hold hearings on several bills pending before the Congress that seek to stop illegal immigration, but at the same time seek to reform our immigration system as a whole.

Mr. Chairman, since you have been Chairman of this subcommittee you have rightfully repeatedly sung the praises of the men and women who work for our nation's U.S. Border Patrol. We held several hearings where the issue has arisen that the INS is not complying with the 1996 law by hiring the authorized numbers to keep our borders safe. It has also been stated at these hearings by several border patrol chiefs that the men and women of the Border Patrol need to be paid at a higher rate.

That is why I have joined with Congressman Reyes, himself a former Border Patrol chief to introduce H.R. 1881, the ''Border Patrol Recruitment and Retention Act of 1999.'' This legislation would increase the compensation for Border Patrol agents and allow the Border Patrol agency to recruit its own agents without relying on personnel offices of the Department of Justice.

This bill deserves a hearing Mr. Chairman as it has both Republican and Democratic co-sponsors. There is already a companion bill in the Senate co-sponsored by Senators Kyl and Kay Bailey Hutchison.

H.R. 1485, the ''Family Reunification Act of 1999'', is a bill sponsored by Congressmen Frank and Frost. This bill makes it possible for the Attorney General to use her discretion to cancel removals or deportations. This bill sets forth changes to Section 240A of the Immigration and Nationality Act and revises this Section to allow permanent residents of 5 years or more to have leniency with departures for visits with families.

How could legislation that seeks to reunite families not have a hearing?

H.R. 1007, the ''Honduran Refugee Immigration Fairness Act of 1999'', and H.R. 919, the ''Liberian Refugee Immigration Protection Act of 1999, that seek to adjust the immigration status of certain Honduran and Liberian nationals respectively also warrant a hearing.

Mr. Chairman, if we can have a hearing on bills that seeks to impose mandatory minimums on alien smugglers, and a bill that seeks to impose criminal penalties for people who associate with known terrorists, than surely we can have a meeting of the minds on these pressing issues.

Other bills which warrant a hearing are H.R. 840, sponsored by Congressman Frank Pallone, which is bill that seeks to permit the admission to the United States of nonimmigrant students and visitors who are spouses and children of United States permanent resident aliens, and H.R. 1841, sponsored by Congressman Luis Gutierrez. This is a long overdue bill that restores eligibility for adjustment of status under section 245(i) of the INA.

This bill will allow for permanent residents to adjust their status rather than requiring them to return home. H.R. 1128, the ''American Asian Justice Act of 1999'' sponsored by Congresswoman Juanita Millender-McDonald is a bill that facilitates the immigration to the United States of certain aliens born in the Philippines or Japan who were fathered by United States citizens.

H.R. 1871, the ''Mother Theresa Religious Workers Act of 1999'' sponsored by a valued member of this subcommittee, Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren makes permanent the special immigrant religious worker program. Why can't we have a hearing on bringing foreign religious workers to the United States? This is a good bill Mr. Chairman.

H.R. 1849, sponsored by Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney will require the Attorney General to promulgate regulations related to gender related persecutions, which includes female genital mutilation to determine an alien's claim of asylum. We should have a hearing on this as this is an important issue facing women around the world.

Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky and I will introduce the ''Battered Immigrant Women Protection Act of 1999.'' This bill will deal with the immigration side of the issue by allowing abused women to file an application for permanent residency and eventually citizenship without the cooperation and participation of the abuser. While the subcommittee has scheduled a hearing for the Summer of 2000, I hope that we can move that hearing up to the Summer or Fall of 1999.

Lastly Mr. Chairman on the subject of hearings. The INS has admitted that it wrongly denied thousands of immigrants the opportunity to apply for legalization under the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. The INS has refused to provide a remedy for those it wrongfully turned away from applying for amnesty for more than ten years. As a result Mr. Chairman, many are now in fear of being deported after living in the United States for several years. We need a hearing to address this issue referred to as ''late amnesty.''

Of the 5 million illegal aliens residing in the United States, the INS has estimated that three-fifths entered without inspection, and about two-fifths overstayed nonimmigrant visas. Employment is the primary magnet, but there also appears to be other motives for illegal residency.

For example, spouses and children of legal immigrants, and certain relatives of citizens, may establish illegal residence to bypass long waiting lists for immigrant visas. However, whatever the reason illegal immigration cannot be condoned. I look forward to hearing from the witnesses and engaging in a constructive debate about how we go about dealing with illegal immigration in this country.

I do hope that our witnesses remember that we live in a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws, not a nation against immigrants. While the 1996 law has turned our teachers into policeman, and has kept siblings and children of parents apart, we in the Congress need to reform the so-called ''reform'' bill. If we hold hearings on the bills that I have discussed, we can do just that. Let's keep an open bind, and not bash our immigrants, but surely protect our borders, preserve our laws and afford due process.

Mr. Chairman, I hope that you and I can join together to reform the INS. while it certainly is an agency comprised of a lot of hard working men and women, they have an enormous amount of problems existing within that agency that need to be solved. The INS is an agency that needs to be reformed. I hope that together we can make a concerted and constructive effort in bringing about that reform. Thank-you Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee. We welcome you as well your son, Jason. I have had my children at these hearings before as well, and I am sure that we will all learn from our witnesses today.

Let me mention regarding the subjects that you raised that I do anticipate having hearings on some of them at least. As you know, we are a very active subcommittee. I think we are perhaps the only subcommittee in Congress that meets every week that we are not in conflict with the full Judiciary Committee. So there are many things on our agenda.

I am glad to hear you mention something that I mentioned so often before, and that is that immigration is neither all good nor all bad. There are people that idealize immigration and think that it is all good, but that is just as erroneous as those who say all aspects of immigration are bad, and that is what many of our hearings have been about.

You mentioned, for instance, the hearing on educational priorities. We pointed out in that hearing the many positive aspects of skilled and educated immigrants coming to America. On the other hand, we pointed out aspects of immigration that are not so positive, particularly in regard to illegal immigration, which is the subject of today's hearing.

I think we are going to hear some very straightforward personal experiences from individuals who are literally on the front lines who confront the consequences of illegal immigration on a daily basis.

We will now go to the first panel, and I will introduce you, and then we will get started with your testimony. Mr. Tobin Armstrong, a rancher from Kingsville, Texas; Mr. Larry Vance, from Douglas, Arizona, chairman of the Cochise County Concerned Citizens; Ms. Angie Morfin, Salinas, California, of Mothers Taking Action Against Gang Violence; and Ms. Carol Joyal from San Jose, California. We welcome you all and look forward to your testimony.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Armstrong, if you would begin.


Statement Of Tobin Armstrong, Rancher, Kingsville, TX

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Tobin Armstrong. My residence is at Armstrong, Texas, in the center of Kenedy County. There are 460 people in Kenedy County, three people per square mile. It is 60 miles north of Mexico on the gulf of Mexico and has no cultivated land. It is all native pasture and has a thick cover of thorn trees and live oak trees. I have lived in Kenedy County all my life, have served as a county official since 1948 and presently county commissioner for my precinct. I am the managing partner of the Armstrong ranch, which is a family partnership involving 49,300 acres and 2,500 cattle units.

Since 1993, my home county has experienced an escalation in traffic of illegal aliens resulting in increasing destruction of property, burglary, auto and equipment theft, death by starvation, exposure, disease, auto and train accidents and murder, illegal alien smuggling, narcotics trafficking, forage contamination, massive littering of our pastures, and most distressing of all, the introduction of diseases uncommon to the United States.

Health authorities say there is no way to prevent illegal immigrants from bringing in these diseases. In October 1998, two women, a mother and daughter from El Salvador, were discovered in our pasture by the border patrol. Both had malaria and were at death's door. They were treated in the Kleberg Spohn Memorial Hospital for 10 days and released at a cost to the hospital of $39,000. The mosquito that carries malaria is found as far north as Corpus Christi, Texas, 150 miles north of the Mexican border.

Mary Lee Grant, well-regarded reporter for the Corpus Christi Caller-Times, and her coworker contracted tuberculosis while doing investigative reporting on the conditions in the colonias in Nueces County, which is the County of Corpus Christi.

She conservatively estimates that, based on numerous interviews through the colonias, at least 70 percent of the people in the colonias were illegal aliens, which leads us strongly to suspect that the sharp increase in TB in south Texas is due to the influx of these illegal transients.

Other diseases being brought in to the U.S. by illegal immigrants include encephalitis, cholera, rheumatic fever, salmonella, intestinal parasites, smallpox, measles, HIV, and venereal diseases. The threat of introduction of foot and mouth and other devastating livestock diseases is staggering. The toll on the illegals themselves is appalling.

We have found five bodies, and I got a call from the sheriff in our county this morning announcing that he had picked up another body in the county, a 44-year-old Mexican woman from Michoacan, who died last night of dehydration. We found these six bodies in the county since January the 1st and have been averaging 20 per year for the past 4 or 5 years. Who knows how many bodies will never be found in these remote pastures?

Last year, six illegals were run over and killed while sleeping on the railroad adjacent to our pasture. In March, 12 illegal aliens were severely injured, and one of them permanently paralyzed when the Suburban they were being smuggled in turned over and crashed through our ranch fence. Local hospitals and taxpayers must pay the bills for these people.

In April 1999, 123 illegals were found locked in a semi trailer-truck at the Sarita immigration checkpoint six miles north of my home. The driver of the truck was carrying $25,000 in cash. Thirty illegals were found in a truck the week before. This has become a common occurrence along our frontiers. About 2,000 illegals per month are apprehended at the Sarita checkpoint. 1,555,776 were apprehended in the district in the fiscal year ending October the 31st 1998.

It is common opinion that this is but a fraction of the numbers that are getting through. Smuggling organizations are increasingly large, well financed and well connected, with sharp scouts, decoys, guides, and high-tech communications. Smuggling has become big business. Some bus drivers are able to pick up illegals, pocket the fares, and issue no tickets.

Make no mistake about it. The word is out that if you can get to the U.S. interior, you are home free. That is why illegals will continue to come in increasing numbers. The situation is getting worse, not better. Interdiction hasn't significantly deterred illegal entry. It just redirects it.

Mr. Chairman, that is my statement.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Armstrong.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Armstrong follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Tobin Armstrong, Rancher, Kingsville, TX

My name is Tobin Armstrong. My residence is at Armstrong, Texas, in the center of Kenedy County. There are 460 people in Kenedy County—3 people per square mile. It is 60 miles north of Mexico on the Gulf of Mexico and has no cultivated land. It is all native pastureland and has a thick cover of thorn trees and live oak trees. I have lived in Kenedy County all my life, have served as a county official since 1948, and am presently County Commissioner for my precinct. I am the managing partner of the Armstrong Ranch, which is a family partnership involving 49,300 acres and 2500 cattle units.

Since about 1993 my home county has experienced an escalation in traffic of illegal aliens resulting in increasing:

1.) destruction of property
2.) burglary
3.) auto and equipment theft
4.) death by starvation, exposure, disease, auto and train accidents and murder
5.) illegal alien smuggling
6.) narcotics trafficking
7.) forage contamination
8.) massive littering of our pastures
9.) and most distressing of all, the introduction of diseases uncommon in the U.S.

Health authorities say there is no way to prevent illegal immigrants' bringing in these disease. In October 19998 two women, a mother and daughter from El Salvador, were discovered in our pasture by the Border Patrol. Both had malaria and were at death's door. They were treated in the Spohn Memorial Hospital for 10 days and released at a cost to the hospital of over $39,000. The mosquito that carries malaria is found as far north as Corpus Christi, Texas, 150 miles north of the Mexican border.

Mary Lee Grant, well regarded reporter for the Corpus Christi Caller-Times, and her co-worker contracted T.B. while doing investigative reporting on the conditions in the colonias in Nueces County. She conservatively estimates that, based on numerous interviews conducted, 70% of the people in the colonias are illegal aliens, which leads us to strongly suspect that the sharp increase in T.B. in South Texas is due to the influx of these illegal transients.

Other diseases being brought in to the U.S. by illegal immigrants include encephalitis, cholera, rheumatic fever, salmonella, intestinal parasites, smallpox, measles, HIV and V.D.s.

The threat of the introduction of foot and mouth and other devastating livestock diseases is staggering. The toll on the illegals themselves is appalling.

We have found 5 bodies in the county since January 1 and have been averaging 20 per year for the past 4 or 5 years. Who knows how many bodies will never be found in these remote pastures?

Last year 6 illegals were run over and killed while sleeping on the rails adjacent to our pasture.

In March, 12 illegal aliens were severely injured, one of them permanently paralyzed, when the Suburban they were being smuggled in turned over and crashed through our ranch fence. Local hospitals and taxpayers must pay these bills.

In April 1999, 123 illegals were found locked in a semi-trailer truck at the Sarita Immigration Checkpoint 6 miles north of my home. The driver of the truck was carrying $25,000 in cash.

Thirty illegals were found in a truck the week before. This has become a common occurrence along our frontiers.

About 2000 illegals per month are apprehended in the Sarita Checkpoint. 1,555,776 were apprehended in the district in fiscal year ending October 31, 1998.

It is common opinion that this is but a fraction of the numbers that are getting through.

Smuggling organizations are increasingly large, well financed and well connected with sharp scouts, decoys, guides and hi-tech communications. Smuggling has become big business.

Some bus drivers are able to pick up illegals, pocket the fares, and issue no tickets.

Make no mistake about it: the word is out that if you can get to the U.S. interior you are home free. That is why illegals will continue to come in increasing numbers. The situation is getting worse, not better. Interdiction hasn't significantly deterred illegal entry—it just redirects it.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Vance.


Statement Of Larry Vance, Rancher, Douglas, AZ, Chairman, Cochise County Concerned Citizens

Mr. VANCE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and members, thank you for allowing me to speak to you today. My name is Larry Vance. I am the second son of a legally naturalized American of Mexican origin. I live approximately 3 miles west of Douglas, Arizona, about a mile north of the Mexican border.

A brother and his family and my parents are my neighbors on a 20-acre family plot. My wife and I have lived there for 25 years. In that time we have had some problems with illegal aliens. I have been burglarized, had a truck stolen, and property vandalized. My brother and parents have had similar problems. We have adapted to this by installing high expensive fences, expensive burglar alarms, mean aggressive dogs, and other measures.

However, for the past 7 years, in particular the last year, we have seen a dramatic increase in the number of illegal border crossers. The occasional illegal alien has grown to literally thousands crossing every night, men, women and children. I have seen groups where the majority will likely become public charges, and with the accompanying noises of dogs barking, people yelling and screaming, babies crying, horns honking and occasionally gun shots, I haven't had a complete night's sleep in more than 10 months.

Six months ago I witnessed some sort of a shoot-out about a mile from my house. We live in constant fear of being robbed, assaulted or worse. We must remain armed at all times because border bandits prey upon the helpless within close proximity of our homes, and armed drug smugglers transport drugs past in the night. We are like prisoners in our own homes.

My parents or someone must remain on the property at all times to guard against foreign invaders. An 81-year-old neighbor who is a widow has been burglarized approximately fifty times. Another one has had his homeowners insurance canceled.

The area along our Mexican border has become a no-man's land, where lawlessness prevails. Criminals strike and flee to freedom in a country where they are coddled, even admired. They rape, rob, and beat their own countrymen and others, with impunity. I have been asked why don't you move. The answer is I can't. Nobody wants to move to an area like I described.

My property values have declined to the point where I owe more than what it can be sold. I can't begin to convey to you the feelings of helplessness, frustration, and fear that has overcome border residents. Livelihoods are being threatened and destroyed. Tracts of pristine desert-ecological treasures have been permanently disfigured or lost. Pastures of prime grassland have become the equivalent of landfills, littered with clothing, diapers, feces, and plastic and other debris. U.S. citizens and legal residents are being deprived of their rights, property, and piece of mind by individuals who have sneaked across our border in violation of U.S. Federal law while the U.S. Government allows it to go on and the Mexican government encourages citizens to migrate illegally.

Some aliens rights groups shout racism when the issue of establishing control of our borders is brought forth. I ask you, what is it about race that entitles a person to sneak across our border, violate our laws, destroy my property and take advantage of the benefits we have set aside for our citizens and legal residents?

It is true that this is a Nation established by immigrants. It is also true that our ancestors were legal immigrants! That distinction is lost by those who advocate open borders and that all in the world have a right to come to America.

Through press releases, media interviews, and personal observations I have learned that Doris Meissner regards all immigrants, legal and illegal, as her clients. U.S. immigration laws were enacted to protect the American public from criminals, the insane, subversives, and those who are likely to become public charges. The commissioner of INS is mandated by law to act accordingly. I submit to you that the true clients of Doris Meissner consist of the American public who is entitled to protection. Her obligation is first to the American people and secondly to those who can prove to be bona fide immigrants. Her job is not to protect all who come here regardless of their method of entry.

Mr. Chairman, members, I ask you here today why are the borders of other Nations so important that our military can be used to enforce them, but not our own? I beg you to put the priorities of government back to protecting the public and border area residents as well.

Thank you very much, and I will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Vance.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Vance follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Larry Vance, Rancher, Douglas, AZ, Chairman, Cochise County Concerned Citizens

Mr. Chairman and members, thank you for allowing me to speak to you today. My name is Larry Vance. I am the second son of a legally naturalized American of Mexican origin. I live approximately 3 miles west of Douglas, Arizona, and about 1 mile north of the Mexican border. A brother and his family, and my parents are my neighbors on a 20-acre family plot. My wife and I have lived there for 25 years. In that time, we have had some problems with illegal aliens. I've been burglarized, had a truck stolen, and property vandalized.

My brother and parents have had similar problems. We have adapted to this by installing high fences, expensive burglar alarms, mean aggressive dogs, and other measures. However for the past seven years, in particular the last year, we have seen a dramatic increase in illegal border crossing. The occasional illegal alien has grown to literally thousands crossing every night. Men, women and children. I've seen groups where the majority will likely become public charges. With the accompanying noises of dogs barking, people yelling and screaming, babies crying, horns honking, and occasionally gun shots, I haven't had a complete night sleep in more than 10 months. Six months ago, I witnessed some sort of shoot out a mile from my house.

We live in constant fear of being robbed, assaulted, or worse. We must remain armed at all times because border bandits prey upon the helpless within close proximity of our homes, and armed drug smugglers transport drugs past in the night. We are like prisoners in our own homes. My parents or someone must remain on the property at all times to guard against foreign invaders. An 81-year-old neighbor has been burglarized approximately 50 times. Another has had his homeowners insurance canceled.

The area along the Mexican border has become a ''no man's land'' where lawlessness prevails. Criminals strike and flee to freedom in a country where they are coddled, even admired. They rape, rob and beat their own countrymen and others with impunity.

I have been asked, ''Why don't you move?'' The answer is, I can't. Nobody wants to move to an area like I have described. My property values have declined to the point that I owe more than for what it can be sold.

I cannot begin to convey to you the feelings of helplessness, frustration and fear that has overcome border residents. Livelihoods are being threatened and destroyed. Tracts of pristine desert-ecological treasures have been permanently disfigured or lost. Pastures of prime grassland have become the equivalent of landfills littered with clothing, diapers, feces, plastic and other debris. U.S. citizens and legal residents are being deprived of their rights, property and piece of mind by individuals who have sneaked into this country in violation of U.S. laws while the U.S. Government allows it to go on and the Mexican Government encourages its citizens to migrate illegally.

Some illegal aliens rights groups shout ''Racism'' when the issue of establishing control of our border is brought forth. I ask you, What is it about race that entitles a person to sneak across our border, violate our laws, destroy my property and take advantage of the benefits we have set aside for our citizens and legal residents?

It is true that this is a nation established by immigrants. It is also true that our ancestors were LEGAL immigrants. That distinction is lost by those who advocate open borders and that all in the world have a right to come to America.

Through press releases, media interviews and personal observations, I have learned that Doris Meissner regards all immigrants, legal and illegal, as her 'clients. U.S. immigration laws were enacted to protect the American public from criminals, the insane, subversives and those who are likely to become public charges. The Commissioner of INS is mandated by law to act accordingly. I submit to you that the true ''clients'' of Doris Meissner consist of the American public who is entitled to protection. Her obligation is first to the American people and secondly to those who can prove to be bonafide immigrants. Her job is NOT to protect all who come here regardless of their method of entry.

Mr. Chairman, I ask you and the other members here today. Why are the borders of other nations so important that our military can be used to enforce them, but not our own? I beg you to put the priorities of the government back to protecting the public and border area residents as well.

Thank You. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Mr. SMITH. Let me say to our enthusiastic audience here that it might be better for you to hold your applause until the end of the hearing or perhaps hold it until you have a chance to indicate your support of these individuals on a one-to-one basis, so that we can maintain the decorum of the hearing.

Ms. Morfin, we look forward to your testimony.

 Ms. MORFIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Angie Morfin. I am an American-born Latino from Salinas, California. I have come here today to tell you of a personal cost that I have paid due to illegal immigration.

I would like to start by saying that my father was from Mexico, but my mother's father was American-born Apache Indian.

First, I would—excuse me.

Mr. SMITH. Take your time, and there is no rush here.

Ms. MORFIN. First, I want to describe my community. Salinas is a community of 100,000 in central California. It is not a big city. That part of California is a big agricultural area. So we have always had migrant workers. Years ago they would come and do the harvest and leave once the work was completed. Now, they don't leave and each year the numbers grow. We have a large community of illegal aliens, mostly Latinos, and those numbers are growing.

Also, I can tell the members of this committee that the Latino American citizens of our community want the illegals removed, especially the illegal gang members. We resent their presence in our community. American-born Latinos are being treated like second-class citizens when it comes to illegal migrants.

At a congressional town hall meeting in Salinas last year, Congressman Sam Farr heard from many people from our community that they wanted more border patrols to catch and deport illegal aliens. Two sheriffs from neighboring counties told Congressman Farr that they wanted the border patrol to resume the practice of visiting their jails twice a week to remove and deport illegal aliens.

Illegal immigrant crime is really a problem in my community, gangs—illegal immigrant gangs especially. We definitely have a need for increased enforcement. But even though we need it and citizens have asked for it, the Salinas border patrol station has only one agent for a three-county area. Just one. That is not the kind of commitment to immigration enforcement that is going to solve the problem in my community.

The price I have paid for nonenforcement of immigration laws and the presence of illegal aliens in my community was a big one. It is a price that I truly hope that none of you ever have to pay.

I told you that illegal alien gang activity is a problem in my community. Well, in 1990 I found out just how bad it could be, when an illegal alien gang member from Mexico killed my 13-year-old son, Ruben. My son, Ruben, was not a gang member. He was just a little boy walking with some friends to his grandmother's house. As he and his friends tried to run, they were approached—I am sorry. As he and the others tried to run from the gang members who approached them, Ruben was shot in the back of his head. He died 3 hours later. His killer fled the country, running back home to Mexico. He was an illegal alien.

I was paralyzed with grief. I just wanted to die. I couldn't bear to live without my little boy. I cried and I prayed for God to give me the strength to go on. I prayed for justice, but I also prayed that I would never have to see the face of the person who had just changed my life forever.

In the years that have passed since Ruben was killed, I have met with other mothers who have lost sons to gang violence perpetrated by illegal aliens. I have sadly learned that this can happen to anybody, and while it is too late to protect my son Ruben, it is not too late to take the measures necessary to make our communities safer and hopefully save someone else's child. Interior enforcement of our immigrant laws will make our communities safer.

Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, it is not enough to talk about fixing the system. We must act. You must act now. And not just Congress, but all Americans need to get involved to solve the illegal immigration problem. I especially believe that more Latino Americans should get involved. Together we can make a difference. The time has come as American-born Latinos and all American citizens to stand up for our rights as citizens.

And I identify myself—now, I identified myself as a Latino American woman at the beginning of this testimony. Actually, I don't like or approve of hyphenated Americans. We are Americans, and whether we are Latino Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans or European Americans, the common denomination is that we are Americans; and it is our citizenship that we have in common; and as citizens, we need to encourage lawmakers to ensure that the laws you make are enforced and that includes immigration laws.

I thank God that I was born in this country and lived during a time when people were proud to be Americans. I am proud to say I am an American. We should not be afraid to say how proud we are or that we want to enforce our immigration laws to stop illegal immigration because, ladies and gentlemen, if we don't act like we care about this country, we are not going to have a country, and a Nation that cannot control its borders won't be a nation for very long.

I care about America, and I want to protect my country from illegal immigration. I would like to close by reading a letter I wrote to my son the day he would have turned 18.

''Dear Ruben, today's one of the saddest days of my life. Another birthday has come and you aren't around. Today you would have turned 18. As the days and years go by I miss you just as much today as the day you died. Esther and Nando always remember you. They talk about the good times when you were around. Sometimes they laugh and sometimes they cry, but most the time they just wonder why it had to happen to you. I remember the last time I saw you how I held you in my arms and I told you how much I loved you and that if anything happened to you I would die, but I was wrong. I didn't die.

My loss has made me a stronger person in order to try and help your friends the way you told me to do the day you died. I couldn't help Willy the way I wanted to but I will try my best, even in a world that is unfair. I have been told many times that I am a sore loser when things don't go my way. Well, maybe I am, look what I have lost. I am the one that has to live without you. There are good days and there are bad days. Some days I just want to give up, but then I think of all the small children who are out there just like you were, and I have to try and help stop the violence.

I know in my heart that one day the Lord will give me the chance to see you again if I do good in a world that sometimes is unfair. I will always love you till the ends of the days when we meet with the Lord. Your mom, Angie Morfin.''

Ms. Jackson, you are very fortunate to have your 13-year-old son alive today and here witnessing you. Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Morfin. I know it is not easy to talk about such sensitive subjects which quite frankly makes us appreciate your testimony all the more.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Morfin follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Angie Morfin, Salinas, CA, Mothers Taking Action Against Gang Violence

Thank you Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Angie Morfin, I am a Latino-American woman from Salinas, California. I have come here today to tell you of a personal cost that I have paid for illegal immigration.

But first I want to describe my community. Salinas is a community of 100,000 in Central California, it is not the big city. That part of California is a big agricultural area and so we have always had migrant farm workers. Years ago they would come and do the harvest and then leave once the work was completed. Now, they don't leave, and each year the number grows.

We have a large community of illegal aliens, mostly Latino, and those numbers are growing, also. I can tell the members of this committee that the Latino-American citizens of our community want the illegals removed. We resent their presence in our community.

At a congressional town hall meeting in Salinas last year, Congressman Sam Farr heard from many people from our community that they wanted more Border Patrol to catch and deport illegal aliens. Two sheriffs from neighboring counties told Congressman Farr that they wanted the Border Patrol to resume the practice of visiting their jails twice a week to remove and deport the illegals.

Illegal immigrant crime is a real problem in my community. Gangs, illegal immigrant gangs, especially. We definitely have a need for increased enforcement. But even though we need it, and citizens have asked for it, the Salinas Border Patrol station has only one agent for a three county area. Just one. That is not the kind of commitment to immigration enforcement that is going to solve the problem in my community.

The price I have paid for non enforcement of our immigration laws, and the presence of illegal aliens in my community was a big one. It is a price that I truly hope that none of you ever has to pay.

I told you that illegal alien gang activity is a problem in my community. Well in 1990 I found out how just how bad it could be when an illegal alien gang member from Mexico killed my thirteen year old son, Ruben. Ruben was not a gang member. He was just a beautiful little boy walking with some friends to his grandmother's house. As he and the others tried to run from the gang members who approached them Ruben was shot in the head and killed. His killer fled the country, running back home to . . . Mexico. He was an illegal alien.

I was paralyzed with grief. I just wanted to die, I couldn't bear to live without my little boy. I cried and prayed to God for the strength to go on with my life. I prayed for justice for Ruben.

In the years that have passed since Ruben was killed I have met other mothers who have lost sons to gang violence, perpetrated by illegal aliens. I have sadly learned that this can happen to anybody. And while it is too late to protect my Ruben, it is not too late to take the measures necessary to make our communities safer and hopeful save someone else's child. Interior enforcement of our immigration laws will make our communities safer.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the committee. It is not enough to talk about fixing the system. We must act, you must act now. And not just Congress, but all Americans need to get involved to solve the illegal immigration problem. I personally believe that more American Latinos should get involved. Together we can make a difference. The time has come for us as American born Latino, and all American citizens to stand up for our rights as citizens.

Now I identified myself as a Latino-American woman at the beginning of this testimony. Actually, I don't like, or approve of hyphenated-Americans. We're Americans. And whether we are Latino-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans or European-Americans, the common denominator is that we are Americans. And it is our citizenship that we have in common. And as citizens we need to encourage you lawmakers to ensure that the laws you make are enforced, and that includes immigration laws.

I thank God that I was born in this country and lived during a time when people are proud to be Americans. I am proud to say I'm an American. We should not be afraid to say how proud we are, or that we want to enforce our immigration laws and stop illegal immigration.

Because, ladies and gentlemen, if we don't act like we care about this country we're not going to have a country.

And, a nation that cannot control its borders won't be a nation for very long.

I care about America and want to protect my country from illegal immigration.

Thank you very much for inviting me to speak to you today.

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Joyal


Statement Of Carol Joyal, San Jose, CA

Ms. JOYAL. Mr. Chairman and Ms. Jackson Lee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you to describe some of my family's mostly school-related immigration problems and experiences. I am a native of Oakland, California, a former teacher and a parent of a black child. Diversity is hardly new in California and hardly new to me.

During my son's academic years, he always experienced a mix of cultures, but the increase in the immigrant school population has been very rapid, especially after 1985. Though most of the children in his high school were making accommodation to change, not all were.

A rival high school's gang appeared, mostly immigrant youth, and tried to take over the area we live in a reign of terror. He was pulled from our house and severely beaten. The seven hooded attackers used an axe handle to crush his nose, beat him on the back of the head and tried to break his leg at the shin.

We encouraged our son to talk with authorities and then had to hide him for fear of retribution. We became convinced the crimes in our area were economic ones, also. And I did follow up with probation officers to find out more about the youths involved. These were very poor youth in a community with just growing disparity in incomes.

While in hiding, he attended a Los Angeles high school and was surprised at how self-segregated it was. It was okay to talk with other ethnic and racial groups in class, but not at recess and not at breaks. The school snack area was Hispanic, mostly Central Americans. The cafeteria seemed to have imaginary lines drawn, with sections for blacks, sections for Armenians, Tongans, Samoans, and whites. Asking about the segregation tradition, my son was told you were a sell out if you violated this. There was rapid immigration but not rapid assimilation, a familiar pattern in our high-immigrant school areas.

We talked about attitudes of race beginning at home and changing very slowly, if at all, and the fact that many of our immigrant groups had lived in societies where there was only one race.

While on Easter break from school, we unwittingly became involved with a group of immigrants who had auto accidents for profit. Though my son was only slightly injured, I have some permanent nerve damage and a wrecked car from this incident; and after my son finally returned, the threats continued for some time. He was advised not to use certain fast-food establishments after dark; and in fact, it was months before he was unaccompanied after dark.

Our family was also aware of many students living alone or not in their own homes, these parachute children, illegal aliens left by parents who returned to their own countries. Often they are parented via fax machines, and they are very lonely. There may be as many as 200,000 of these youngsters freely attending our California schools; and indeed there was a gang happening in one of our local high schools involving this group. This is costly and our school districts are already having severe economic problems keeping up with the constant increases in student population.

I believe our schools are making a tremendous effort to educate all California children, but they are simply overwhelmed. Community problems become classroom problems. We have trouble recruiting teachers due to the scarcity of housing and a high cost of living. Our school facilities are desperately in need of repair, yet the State needs to build a school a day to keep up with the number of new pupils.

California needs major financial help to even cope. I see no solution to solve the problems associated with so much immigration without assimilation in our schools and communities.

Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Joyal.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Joyal follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Carol Joyal, San Jose, CA

Mr. Chairman, and Members of the Subcommittee on Claims and Immigration:

I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the Subcommittee to describe some of our family's mostly school related immigration experiences. I am a native Californian, a former teacher, and the parent of a Black child.

During my son's academic years he always experienced a mix of cultures, but the increase in the immigrant school population was very rapid, especially after 1985. Though most of the children in his high school were making accommodation to change, not all were.

A rival high school gang, mostly immigrant youth, tried to take over the area in a reign of terror. My son was pulled from our house and severely beaten. The seven hooded attackers used an ax handle to crush his nose, beat him on the back of his head, and to try to break his leg at the shin.

We encouraged our son to talk with authorities, and then had to hide him for fear of retribution. We became convinced the crimes in our area were economic ones also. These youth were poor, in a community with growing disparity in incomes.

While in hiding he attended a Los Angeles school, and was surprised at how self- segregated it was. It was okay to talk with other ethnic and racial groups in class, but not at recess or breaks. The school snack bar area was Hispanic, mostly Central Americans, the cafeteria seemed to have imaginary lines drawn, with sections for Blacks, Armenians, Tongans, Samoans and Whites. Asking about the segregation tradition, my son was told you were a ''sell out'' if you violated this. There was rapid immigration, but not rapid assimilation, a familiar pattern in our high immigrant school areas. We talked about attitudes of race beginning at home, and changing very slowly, if at all, and the fact that many of our immigrant groups had lived in societies where there was only one race.

While on Easter break from school, we unwittingly became involved with a group of immigrants who had auto accidents for profit. Though my son was only slightly injured, I had some permanent nerve damage, and a wrecked car. And on return to our home from Los Angeles, the threats continued for some time. He was advised not to use certain fast food establishments after dark. And in fact, it was months before he dared to go out unaccompanied after dark.

Our family was also aware of many students living alone, or not in their homes. These ''parachute children'' are left alone with strangers or family members by their parents, who remain in other countries, so the children can attend our schools. Often they are parented via fax machines, and are very lonely. There may be as many as 200,000 of these youngsters freely attending our schools. This is costly, and our school districts are already having severe economic problems keeping up with the constant increases in student population.

I believe our schools are making a tremendous effort to educate all California children, but they are simply overwhelmed. Community problems become classroom problems. We have trouble recruiting teachers due to a scarcity of housing and a high cost of living. Our school facilities are desperately in need of repair, yet the state needs to build a school a day to keep up with the influx of new pupils. California needs major financial help to even cope. I see no solution to solve the problems associated with so much immigration without assimilation in our school and communities.

Mr. SMITH. I would like to direct my first question to Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Vance. Give us a perspective, as to how things have changed over the last 5 to 10 years. I presume there has been a progressive deterioration in quality of life and a progressive increase in crimes and so forth, but give us a comparison of what the situation was on your properties 5 to 10 years ago versus today. Mr. Armstrong, would you start.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, it is hard to say exactly when the buildup started, but it was in the 1980's. So we have had this flow of illegals going through our country, through our county, on a massive basis. One of the big changes is that the level of sophistication of the modes of getting these people out of the Rio Grande Valley, which is sort of a holding place—they cross the river, practically undetained, and then they congregate and they get in groups now and they get an experienced guide who will either take them through the pastures all the way from 30 miles south of my ranch where the last lateral highway goes and come out 27 miles north of the ranch. They will travel through the pastures entirely between highway 77 and 281 and with a guide who really knows his way takes advantage of the ranch roads and whatnots, he knows where the waterings are.

They travel at night, not in the daytime. It is very difficult to do anything to stop them, and very few of them are stopped. These are well guided. Now, there are many of these people who guide them who are just rip-off artists and just abuse these people terribly, leave them in impossible situations.

The others are hauled out in vehicles that are stolen, and they bring them up the highways to a point short of where the checkpoint is where the vehicle is inspected. They will drive the vehicle into the ditch and go over the fences into the brush pastures and circumnavigate through the pastures these checkpoints and have arranged with the smugglers to pick them up north of the checkpoint, and these arrangements are very sophisticatedly worked out now.

The smugglers will stay in hotels in Kingsville, which is 40 miles north and wait to get the message by cellular telephone or otherwise where and when; and so they will drive innocently down Highway 77 and cross over to the point where they have been told to meet their clients, and these people run out of the brush and jump in the back of the car and lie down on the floor and the car goes off to Houston and this happens with regularity. These technologies are new, though. Ten years ago these poor people didn't have that system to work with.

It will cost a Mexican illegal about $1,000 to get across the river into Houston, if he goes with what we call the coyotes, or the smugglers, $1,000 a piece. So if he wants to get himself to Chicago or North Carolina or some much further, they pay as much as $5,000 to get this done. They get on airplanes right at our international airports.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Armstrong. It sounds to me like the numbers, the smuggling, and the sophistication of those endeavors are all increasing.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. There is no question about it, and the local authorities, the local immigration, border patrol people are quick to point it out that they are having to contend with this; and it is a very difficult thing to contend with.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Vance, you wanted to squeeze in an answer here?

Mr. VANCE. Yes.

Mr. SMITH. There is a 5-minute limit on our questions, and we will come back for another round of questions in a minute, but see if you can respond, if you will.

Mr. VANCE. Very good. Well, we saw our most dramatic increase about a year ago, but it started about late 1992, early 1993 when we started seeing the increase just to get more and more and more. About a year ago we started seeing these trails start showing up in Sulfur Springs Valley where Douglas is located. It is a valley about 25 miles across.

We started seeing more and more people coming across the property. The associated crimes started increasing. People started to be overrun to the point where you can't sleep at night, you are in constant fear of being injured or having a family member injured or property stolen or destroyed.

The ranchers out there are in an extreme drought. These people are coming through —they used to just push the fences down. Now, they are coming through with wire cutters and such. They are draining water tanks that are so, so important to such a drought situation out there.

They are slaughtering our livestock, not because they are starving, because they will cut off just a little 'ole piece and leave the rest of it there to rot in the sun, and it has caused some pretty dramatic changes in our personal behavior.

Like me, my family plot, somebody has got to be there constantly. We hire place sitters when everybody has got to be gone at the same time. We have invested in cell phones. We all use land-line phones, and we all keep two-way hand-held radios so that if one goes down or tampered with, there is another one. We are all armed. There are people around there that never ever had firearms. My wife is one of them. She had no use for a firearm, even though I am a hunter and sports shooter. Now, she carries a doggone pistol with her. I know of several others, one of my coworkers, in fact, is talking about buying a firearm because they have had some problems.

A lady had her two kids in a vehicle with her. She went to a store to run in right quick, a store that is in a shopping center near the border. The older child was very astute. He saw some guys come across, out of the brush from the border. They were looking right at the vehicle he was in, and he had enough wherewithal to jump over and push an automatic door lock to lock the doors. These five guys came up there and were trying to get in with those children there, and he, the older boy, started honking the horn, and a bystander saw the commotion and ran these guys off.

I could sit here for 30 minutes and give you example after example like that. I have invested in expensive night-vision binoculars. We recently rented a bulldozer to clear 10 acres of our property so these people would quit camping there and they can't hide coming into it.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Vance, your examples are compelling. You can't feel secure in your own home, you can't feel safe on your own property. In fact, the property in many ways has been taken away from you.

Mr. VANCE. Yes, sir.

Mr. SMITH. Here in the United States of America. Thank you for your testimony.

Ms. Jackson Lee is recognized.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Thank you very much.

Mr. Armstrong, I thank you for your testimony and would like to explore a little bit more with the concerns that you have expressed. Are you asking us to enforce the laws that are there, or do you see the need for new and different laws to be enforced?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. You have had, Ms. Lee—it has been a Federal crime to employ an illegal alien for several years. This goes back to the Simpson bill, if I recall it right. We did not enforce the law. The potential traveler to come to this country has learned that this is not being enforced, that when they get here if they can get past the border barrier, that the border patrol has set up, if they can get to Corpus Christi, Texas, 150 miles north of the Texas border, they are home free; and they are all over the state of Texas; and I imagine that you have seen some of them in your city, but all the way to Nebraska.

Now, when you see or read in the Wall Street Journal that one of the principal packing —the biggest packing company in the United States has entered into an agreement to recruit laborers in Zacatecas, in Fresnillo, a little farming town, and haul them in its own bus all the way to Nebraska to make packing plants workers out of them, and it is done with the full knowledge of the Department of Justice, this — it is very discouraging.

I hope I have answered your question.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. No, you haven't. I think I am echoing, but let me just add, we are in complete agreement about the necessity of you and others to have their land held safely and to travel and have ingress and egress in a safe manner and to not be attacked or undermined by illegal aliens in the United States not enforcing its laws. So you have given me added ammunition, if you will, for the issue dealing with enforcement. We have got an enforcement problem, and then I note that you talk about bringing diseases.

So we have additional resources because one of the issues that I am most concerned about is our failure to enhance the numbers of border patrol agents, both at the northern border and at the southern border; and I am working to provide relief to the extent that we increase the compensation. They indicate that there is a difficulty, but there are other problems.

So I just wanted to sort of focus in that part of what we need to do in your perspective is enforcement and providing more resources to ensure that those individuals are not illegally coming over the border or that there is alien smuggling. Is that what I hear you saying?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes. Barbara Jordan, as you know, chaired that blue ribbon committee that advocated that employers be required to verify the Social Security cards that are presented to them as evidence of the citizenship of the prospective employees. That has never been done. She was very positive about that. This kind of thing, a noncounterfeitable identification card for legals and citizens and then stiff penalties on people who violate the law. It makes all the sense in the world to me.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Well, thank you very much. There are new issues and new laws and new ways to approach these issues, but I believe enforcement is important and certainly holding responsible various businesses who take advantage of the desire of these individuals to work.

Let me ask Mr. Vance a question, and again, you are owed the commitment to live safely on your land. Do I understand you to be for legal immigration? Is that your position here today? Are you for legal immigration?

Mr. VANCE. In a very limited fashion, ma'am. This country is to a point where it is almost —well, let me put it this way. I would hate to see this country be like China or India, be so overpopulated that we are just covered up with each other. There is a case for legal immigration. I believe that this country is strong and great because of the different types of people that have come into this country, the different cultures, backgrounds and such, that always helps in immeasurable ways.

But I —I am very much against just uncontrolled immigration, whether it be legal or illegal. It has got to be held to a certain level, 200,000 a year. I am not sure what the figure is. But I will guarantee it is a fraction of what it is today.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Let me just conclude —I see the red light is on, and I see the qualifier in your remarks, and we might be able to go on that issue for a very long time. But let me just say that I believe that we should do more to ensure the safety of the border. We have certainly my involvement on that.

And to Miss Morfin I simply want to say no one can compensate for a loss of a child. All we can do is to say to you thank you for your courage in appearing here.

Mr. Chairman, I will just conclude to Mr. Vance, I did have a question but I already sense that his issue is lawlessness and that is something that we can work on.

I will only remind you, as you have said, that so many of us came to this Nation in an immigrant form. My ancestors for 400 years, we were illegal immigrants, if you will. And I think we helped build this country. I am very sensitive to the finger pointing at the whole issue of immigration.

I believe in focusing it; I believe in protecting you. You have a right to your land. I would fight with you to make sure you have the ability to be safe on your land. But I am very, very suspect on organizations that organize around immigrant bashing.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee. And Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Vance, I appreciate the suggestions you made as far as solutions go and what laws we might enforce or even change to alleviate the problems that we have.

Ms. Morfin, again I appreciate your being here and talking about some difficult and sensitive and tender subjects. I wanted to ask you if you had some suggestions as to what we might do. You have had to make the ultimate sacrifice as far as the lawlessness goes, as far as the crimes go.

What suggestion do you have for us or for law enforcement officials or for the INS? What should they be doing differently to help out or make sure that your kind of situation is not repeated?

Ms. MORFIN. Well, my situation in Monterey County is very different than most of California, I think, because we are migrant workers there. It is a big population of migrant workers. And since the amnesty came through, you gave them a right, and a lot of these people are proud to be Mexicans and they will tell you they are proud to be Mexican.

And if you tell them that you are a proud American Latino, they get mad at you. And that is where our gang problem is. Because the ones that claim north are usually American-born Latinos, and the ones that claim south are Mexican-born Hispanics. And they are just killing each other off.

And we have a big problem in the Latino community that we have to resolve, and not keeping it quiet anymore is our solution. But I think that one immigration officer in Monterey County is not enough. We need more INS officers, and we need to enforce our laws. They are not being enforced.

Mr. SMITH. I think you hit upon both aspects of the solution: more law enforcement officials, but also the solutions go beyond personnel and law enforcement. And we appreciate, again, your testimony.

Ms. Joyal, you offered a unique perspective today, that of a classroom. In your prepared testimony you talked about parachute children. Would you define that for us and tell us what kind of a problem that presents?

Ms. JOYAL. Well, the parachute children are children that are brought into the country often on visitors' visas. They are left here as young as 15 on their own. And then children as young as age 6 are left with rented aunties, people, baby-sitters the parents find. And these children are brought here to attend our schools. They pay no tuition. These children are often left in unsafe situations.

There are immigration laws about this already in existence. They are not enforced. Our school districts don't really have a way of enforcing them. I think that there probably needs to be additional legislation to help to solve this situation.

No 6-year-old should be brought over to attend school in California living in an unsafe condition where they are not fed well and have no way to cry out. No 15-year-old should be living on his own, period. But this is what's happening in our more affluent school districts. And we have had gang situations because of this. It is costly; it is unsafe. I would like to see something happen in this area.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Joyal. Let me thank all of you for being here today and encourage you, if you want, to stay with us as we go to the second panel and listen to the rest of the hearing. Thanks again for your testimony.

Mr. Armstrong, you have a question?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Mr. Chairman, you passed and the President signed an immigration bill in 1996. Thirty-four months later the section 133 of that immigration bill has been not been acted on by the Justice Department. They have promised that they were working on it, it was a priority. They have nothing. They have had no hearings.

And it would make it legal for a local officer, a constable, deputy sheriff, sheriff, policeman, city policeman, the department of public safety in the State to qualify himself to be able to arrest an illegal alien for violating the Federal immigration laws.

The Department of Justice for 34 months has been sitting on its hands and has not done its duty by writing rules under that section 133 that would make it possible for my county officials to qualify themselves. Right now we cannot arrest an illegal alien on public property unless he is violating a State law.

And he has to go into our pasture, then we have to arrest him for trespass, if we can catch him —you can only see where we have to go to catch him. And if you arrest him and don't take him to court and file suit against him for trespass, you are subject to being sued for false arrest. So this section 133, it is an outrage that it hasn't been —nothing has been done about it for these 34 months.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Armstrong, I happen to agree with you on those points. As you know, it was in the law. They have not written the regulations as promised. And individuals like you who requested the regulations and permission to proceed have been ignored and that is all incredible.

I understand Ms. Jackson Lee has a couple more questions, so we will continue for a few more minutes.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That may go to the whole issue of INS reform on some of those points that you have just made. That is the follow-up that I want is particularly with Ms. Morfin on gang violence, because I was a member of the Houston city council and worked a lot on gang violence issues.

What is needed to assist —these are illegal aliens but they are in gangs. They are probably integrated in with the population —local law enforcement. Has local law enforcement had any impact on breaking through these gangs in any way?

Ms. MORFIN. Right now we have a gang injunction, but there is a lot of people screaming racism because they are from Mexico. And it has been in effect for about a year. And I think it has controlled the problem, but we still have some problems. Because the gang injunction that they put in Salinas, it is only for a certain area. They can't hang out at that certain area, but they can hang out in other areas.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. I am familiar with that. We have done that in other local jurisdictions. What would be helpful to you to assist local law enforcement on that problem?

Ms. MORFIN. I think that enforcing the immigration laws. You know, if maybe the police officers or the sheriffs were able to arrest and deport.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. So some of the issues that Mr. Armstrong said. What about increasing the number of border patrol?

Ms. MORFIN. I think we do need it.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. That would be helpful as far as you are concerned.

Ms. Joyal, the educational issue is extremely difficult. One of the reasons is because you are dealing with children. And I cannot respond to the certainly very tragic circumstances that you are talking about. We need to work more on accepting and understanding each other in places where children are, so they are not sitting in different places that they are actually working with each other. But one thing about education, it is a great equalizer.

Are you suggesting that —when these children come in, many of their parents are illegal immigrants. I think the source would be more to the parents and companies who retain them. Is there —are you trying to suggest that we should go in and round up the children in the school and place that burden on teachers?

Ms. JOYAL. No, that is the real problem. Our schools can't deal with it. But yet we know the children are here, the faculties are aware of many of them, and it is the big social welfare, child welfare issue too, where I think child welfare authorities and school authorities need to work together. And of course there is no interior enforcement that would call the parents in their distant country. So we have a situation where no one is really working together on it.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Well, I sort of hear your plea for help. I would hope that we can focus more on that collaborative effort that you are talking about. I know there is a sensitivity to being a public charge, but I have seen a different impact in Houston.

Mr. Armstrong mentioned Houston. And I would say to you that we have a big school district. We have a number of them in my community or in my congressional district. We have happened to have been able to work with that situation primarily because we focus on the children and provide resources, educate them; and they happen to at least to have the opportunity to be contributing to the normal process of seeking to become citizens. So we don't place that burden on our teachers.

I think the question of resources and collaboration is important. I don't think we should try to burden the school system, but I think focusing on this issue on the children is the wrong direction to go. I think they are more or less innocent victims of this, and best thing we can do is help educate them and make them contributing.

Ms. JOYAL. I agree the children are innocent victims, but the parents I am talking about here are often wealthy foreign nationals who are using our schools, and I think that we need to somehow reach the parents involved here and make them feel responsible for their children. I cannot understand why you put your three children in school so far away, so vulnerable. But we do need to work on the situation. We don't want the child hurt, obviously.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. I thank you for your sensitivity to it, and I think that is a problem we do need to look at, questioning local authorities to find out what would be the best response to it to assist both the child but also place the burden on those who can afford to pay or ask the question why these children are here unattended to. And I thank you for your response.

I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee. Miss Joyal, I want to follow up on that. Isn't the ultimate solution to prevent the illegal entry to begin with rather than find ourselves in a position where we confront the unfortunate situation you described, or the case of California where the taxpayers are saddled with the cost of 300 to $400 million a year.

It seems to me that this is a situation where an ounce of prevention is worth a lot of unhappiness, a lot of inhumanity, and a lot of dollars.

Ms. JOYAL. I really feel in a situation where we don't control the entry-exit visa situation, anybody could be brought into this country and stay. And until we are able to determine that a family that comes over with three children, somehow leaves without the three children, I think it is going to be very difficult.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. Thank you all again for your testimony today. We appreciate your being here.

We will go to our second panel now, and I will introduce them.

Mr. Terry Anderson, auto mechanic, Los Angeles, California; Ms. Ezola Foster, retired school teacher, Los Angeles, California, Americans for Family Values; Mr. Dan Morris, Rogers, Arkansas, Americans for an Immigration Moratorium; and Ms. Selena Walsh, Director of Policy and Communications, League of the United Latin American Citizens.

We welcome you all.

Mr. SMITH. We will begin our second panel with the testimony of Mr. Anderson.


Statement Of Terry Anderson, Auto Mechanic, Los Angeles, CA

Mr. ANDERSON. Thank you, sir. I feel very privileged to be here, and I thank you for inviting me. I want to tell you of my reality. I live in South Central Los Angeles. I have lived there all my life. And I speak from the black perspective because I am black, and I live in a predominantly black community.

The problem with illegal immigration whenever it comes up is that people always give one side and never give the other side. They talk about the poor, poor immigrant who comes here for a better life. They talk about the poor immigrant child who must be educated in our schools. They talk about the immigrant worker who works harder than the black person works, and he will take the job that nobody else takes.

What you never hear is the other side of the story. You never hear that every time that illegal alien comes here, he displaces somebody else. That side is never mentioned. Whenever the subject comes up, you have organizations who step forth and advocate for the illegal alien.

You have MALDEF, MECHA, LULAC, LA RAZA, and other race-based organizations who are exclusive only to one race of people and advocate for those people only. You never hear the other side of that story is that somebody is harmed by them being here. I speak of my community because it is where I live. You will never hear from these people about the 17-year-old black kid in my neighborhood who went to McDonald's and was told you can't work here because you don't speak Spanish.

I don't say that happens all the time. I am telling you of one instance of many that does happen. He was told that he couldn't work there because in the kitchen there would be confusion because most of the workers there were Hispanic and only spoke Spanish in the kitchen and his English, his native language, would confuse issues so he couldn't have a job at McDonald's.

They don't tell you about the 8-year-old little black girl in my community who sits in a classroom all day long and goes home and tells her father, Daddy, I am not learning anything in school. So being a good father he goes down to the school and asks the teacher why. And the little girl looks at him and looks at the teacher at the same time and says because all they do is speak Spanish in my classroom all day.

Now there are advocates that will tell you that is good, she is learning Spanish. She is not learning Spanish. She is listening to Spanish. They are translations all day long in that classroom for the immigrant child, for the illegal alien child so that he can learn in his native language, and they don't care what happens to the little black girl.

So he asked the teacher can we get my child an all-English classroom. She says let us ask the principal. The principal says sure and hands them a paper. And he fills out the paper. The paper is for busing. He says, wait a minute, this is my neighborhood school. Why can't my daughter go to the same school that I went to in this neighborhood?

He says, we have no English-only classrooms in this school. Now his child has to be bused 20 miles in order to learn in English and get a 6-hour education instead of a 3-hour education. They will never tell you that. I am sure that has never been mentioned in this room.

What else has not been mentioned in this room is the $100,000 house on my street that sold for $137,000. Many, many black people came in and looked at that house, but they were not allowed to buy it. I will tell you why. It was a $100,000 house that was sold for 37,000 more than it was worth because five families went on that deed to qualify financially.

Now, you are telling me now that if my son wants to buy a house, he has to go and find four additional families to live there so that he can pay this inflated cost. You always hear about the real estate market in California, how it is booming, how it is great. The reason it is great is because illegal aliens are buying every single house in that city.

I have had nine houses in the last 5 years on my street, and not one of those houses has gone to black people. Nine of them for sale. And there have been many, many blacks who have came and looked at these houses, but they can't buy them. Somehow they don't qualify.

I sense racism here. See, racism isn't just from white folks to black folks. It is from anybody to anybody. And that is what I see happening here. This is out and out racism. It is a definite problem.

Not just —and it is not just the entry-level jobs. It is not just the housing, not just the schooling. Our skilled black workers in Los Angeles cannot find jobs. I am talking brick layers; I am talking concrete; I am talking roofers; I am talking framers; I am talking body and fender men who were taking $20 an hour in the 1970's. Now they can't get a job in South Central unless they are willing to make 7 or $8 an hour. This is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

And the problem is not being addressed by our elected officials. We have gone to them, we have begged them, please help us, and a deaf ear is turned. It has been my experience, my personal experience, that when black elected officials talk, they speak in terms of minorities and people of color. When the advocates of the illegal alien speaks, he speaks about Latinos. We are always left out of the equation. We are never included in the equation.

We have laws on the books to address these problems but, we are not —nobody has the resolve to step forward and use these laws. We could get these people out of our community.

I have no axe to grind with anybody. I don't dislike anybody, but these people have completely ruined my community. We have things there now that we never had before. We have chickens, we have goats, we have people with laundry hung on the front fences of their houses. This is not a stereotype; this is my reality of where I live. We never had that before. We have got corn growing in the front yards 8 feet high. That is my reality where I live.

And I don't hate anybody. I am just saying that my culture, my American culture, is being phased out; and I wouldn't care where these people came from in the world, be it the Balkans, Africa, Iceland. I wouldn't care. If my American culture is being phased out, I am upset. I am upset. I want you to——

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Anderson, let me interrupt you briefly. We have a series of votes that have been called. What I am going to try to do is have one more witness testify before we have to leave for those votes, and then we will return and be able to resume our testimony and the questions as well. But thank you for your testimony.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Anderson follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Terry Anderson, Auto Mechanic, Los Angeles, CA

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Members of the Immigration & Claims subcommittee.

Let me begin by saying that I have not been a political person in the past. I am not now nor have never been a member of any group or organization. However, when I see what is happening to my country, community and my race I know that it is time for me to get involved. I am a black American who has lived on the same street in South Central Los Angeles for 45 years. When I first moved there it was mostly white. And though there were a few (very few) people who did not like us because of our race we were generally treated with respect and dignity. We went to the same schools as the white kids and no special arrangements were made for us. The white folks would give us jobs and we all spoke the same language. We were ALL AMERICANS. We had a common culture, the American culture. Over the years the community changed gradually from white to black but basically (aside from race) remained the same.

About 10 to 15 years ago things began to change, drastically. We started to see an influx of people from south of the border. Mexico, Central America, South America and others. As these people got here our community began to change, for the worse.

When you here in Washington hear about illegal immigration you will only hear about ''the poor immigrant who comes here for a better life'' or the poor, poor immigrant child who ''must'' have an education. You hear about how ''hard working'' they are and about their great work ethic. You hear the lie about how the don't use public services and how they ONLY take the jobs that NOBODY else wants. You hear from all of the liberal organizations who advocate for the illegal aliens. You also hear from the racist organizations like maldef, lulac, mecha and la raza. They will tell you all the reason why the illegal alien is good for America.

What the don't tell you about is the 17 year old kid on my street that can't get a McDonalds job because he can't speak Spanish. They don't tell you about the 8 year old boy on my street who like thousands of other black kids is thrown into a bilingual class room and listens to translations all day long. His six hour school day is turned into three hours. When his mother asks for a English only class room she is told ''there are none''. They won't tell you about the $100,000 house in my neighborhood that sold for $137,000 because the real estate company put five families of ''newly arrived Hispanic'' who spoke no English on the deed. Now when a black family wants to buy a house, they too have to find four other families to share the ridiculous cost.

They won't tell you how skilled black workers in Los Angeles can no longer apply their trade. Body and fender, roofers, framers, drywallers, gardeners, and now even truck drivers. They won't dare tell you about all of the race riots in our schools where the blacks are told to take their black asses back to Africa. Even the news media has refused to tell of this while we know that they are aware or it. There is NEVER a mention of all of the billboards in Spanish and how Chevron is now advertising in Spanish on English language TV.

The illegals won't hire us and won't buy from us. But still our elected black officials won't help us. I met once a few years ago with my Congressman, Julian Dixon. He said he would check into it. He has done nothing. What he HAS done is vote against every bill that would help my and his race of people. He now refuses to meet with me.

We, black Americans are being displaced in Los Angeles. We are being systematically and economically replaced. And the next time somebody tells you that the illegals only takes jobs that blacks won't do, just remember that WE were doing those jobs before the illegal got here AND in places of the country where there is not yet a problem with illegals, you can STILL get your grass cut, your dinner served, your dishes bussed and your hotel room cleaned. Funny how in those places Americans are doing those jobs. We would still be doing them in Los Angeles if it was not for the fact that the illegal will work for $3.00 an hour. Breaking the law by working for less than minimum wage means nothing to somebody who broke the law to get here. And to those who would ask ''How do you know they are illegal'' I would say, there is NO WAY that this many people could come here this fast in these vast numbers under our current immigration system.

I could go on for a week. I would just ask you to help us. Enforce the laws we have. Guard OUR border like we guard the borders of the world. Find these people and deport them. Pass H.R. 73. Remember those of us at the bottom who have no power.

Mr SMITH. Ms. Foster.


Statement Of Ezola Foster, Retired School Teacher, Los Angeles, CA, Americans For Family Values

Ms. FOSTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you on the issue of illegal immigration. My name is Ezola Foster, and I am president of Americans for Family Values. My presidency has brought me in contact with various neighborhoods across America. I lived all my life in the Negro community, the last half of it in South Central Los Angeles.

Today I reside in an area labeled the barrio, so actually I could easily attest to the impact of illegal immigration on the so-called minority communities.

Today, however, I will testify as a teacher who witnessed first hand the harmful effects of illegal immigration on America's children. And I was forced from the teaching profession for talking publicly about it.

My testimony is based on 33 years with the Los Angeles Unified School District, serving as both classroom teacher and in an administrative capacity. In 1960, I received a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Education from Texas Southern University, Houston, Texas.

In 1973, I received a Master of Science in School Management Administration from Pepperdine University in Malibu, California. My credentials include a life teaching credential for the State of Texas, life teaching credential for the State of California, pupil guidance, personnel counselor, State of California.

My teaching experience began in 1963 at David Starr Jordan High School in the Watts area of South Central Los Angeles. Enrollment was made up primarily of children from the four government housing projects surrounding the school. At that time enrollment was predominantly America's Negro children. Today, enrollment is still primarily children living in the four government housing projects surrounding the school. Today, however, the enrollment is predominantly Mexico's children.

Children from El Salvador, Guatemala, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Mexico are classified by the House Management and Budget Office as Hispanic. From July 1985 to July, 1996, I was a teacher at Bell High School in the City of Bell. Enrollment was 89.8 percent Hispanic. For the school year 1992, 1993 it was 96.8 percent Hispanic. 1994, 1995 the last year I received the school's accountability report, it was 98 percent Hispanic.

Now, the proximity of Mexico to California and the corrupt governments cooperating on illegal immigration make children from Mexico the largest number of both Hispanic students and illegal alien students in the Los Angeles Unified School District.

As an example, either no music or only sounds of Mexico's music blares from Bell High School's public address system during recess and lunch. This resulted in clashes between Mexican students and students of other Hispanic cultures. Multicultural teachings ushered in with illegal immigration have increased tensions between Negro and African American children, between Hispanic and non-Hispanic children, between minority and majority children on school campuses nationwide.

Illegal immigration has caused America's parents and children to be treated as second-class citizens in their own country. I have witnessed American citizens, parents, being told your child may not be enrolled until you produce the birth certificate. That child is not enrolled and must sit out of school for however long it takes for the parents to produce that birth certificate.

However, at the same time Spanish-speaking parents bring their children in and only need tell school authorities when and where their children were born, and they are immediately enrolled. This is clearly a double standard where citizens are required to follow the law, but illegal immigrants are not. That is unfair.

On the university level as well, illegal alien students are given more consideration and respect than is America's youth. David G. Savage, Times Education writer, proved this point in his Los Angeles Times July 24, 1985, report on ''State's Campuses Will Admit Illegal Aliens as Residents.''

The article reads: ''California's public universities have decided to admit illegal aliens as state residents. At the University of California at Los Angeles, residents paid $1,296 for a regular school year. Under the previous policy, a student who was an illegal alien was charged the nonresident tuition of $5,112 a year. Now illegal aliens will pay less in tuition than U.S. citizens from out of state. That is unfair.''

A copy of this news article was given to teachers by school administrators with the note please share the attached information with students. Now our many illegal aliens can attend UC and California State University as residents and are not required to pay extra fees.

How long anyone can justify such treatment of American citizens is beyond me and I dare say most other Americans. Illegal immigration has created tensions between citizens and noncitizens in what is known to some as the culture war and to others as the new race war in America.

Many new policies in various school districts have basically been to accommodate the massive invasion that has taken place in our country. And as schools accommodate new people who do not speak English, our own students suffer.

In South Central Los Angeles, those who are being hurt the most are the Negro children and their fellow American students of Mexican heritage. Now many public school teachers dare not publicly speak their support, even though they know that these children are being hurt in our schools. Why do they not speak out? Because of the support for illegal activities by government-funded politically powerful and corporate-financed groups and their allies.

I am a perfect example. A public broadcasting system program debating the Gallegly Immigration Bill amendment giving States the right to decide if they wanted to pay for education of illegal alien children was televised on Memorial Day, May 27, 1996.

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Foster, I am going to have to interrupt you because we are going to miss these votes if we don't go right now. We will certainly let you finish—you are very enlightening—when we return but we will need to stand in recess for about 15 minutes.

[Recess.]

Mr. SMITH. If I could ask our witnesses on the second panel to come forward and take their seats, we will resume. The Immigration Subcommittee will now reconvene. While we are waiting for everybody to take their seats, without objection we will make a part of the record the testimony of Roger Barnett, who was going to testify today but who became ill, and also a letter from the Border Trade Alliance.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Barnett follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Roger Barnett, Sierra Vista, AZ

Thank you Mr. Chairman, and ladies and gentlemen of the committee. My name is Roger Barnett and I live in Sierra Vista, Arizona, in Cochise County, in the southeast corner of Arizona that borders Mexico.

I have recently been the subject of many news reports, both local and national, because I, and my brothers, have had to take extraordinary measures to protect my property. I have a 22,000 acre ranch just east of Douglas, Arizona. My ranch is mostly desert, but I do have employees who tend to the horses and the couple hundred head of cattle that are there. It isn't located right on the border. It is, at various places, two to five miles from the Mexican border.

In the past year the foot traffic by illegal aliens has increased tremendously. Thousands of aliens have crossed my property, after entering our country illegally, in an attempt to get to a local highway and then be smuggled into the interior of the country. I have seen these people, and I have picked up literally tons of garbage that they have left behind. Every thing from cigarette packages, to water jugs, to dirty diapers, to toilet paper.

There are so many crossing my property that I can tell you that at times it looks like a slow motion invasion. And they all aren't illegal aliens.

Drug traffickers will frequently use my property to smuggle drugs across the border.

I am sure that the number of aliens and drug runners is quite high, because in the past year, my brothers and I have turned over to the Border Patrol, more than 1,000 aliens.

And I don't blame the Border Patrol agents for not catching them all, either. These fellows work hard, and they catch who they can. But there just aren't enough of them to do the job, faced with the numbers of illegal aliens that are coming across the border now. So, my family and I have begun to patrol the property, to do what we can to stop the influx.

Some news accounts have questioned whether or not we are ''vigilantes'' because we carry guns. And to that I answer that we are not because vigilantes act like the law, take the law into their own hands and then mete out whatever type of justice they want right on the spot.

We're just ranchers trying to protect our property, livestock, water and employees the only way we know how, since the Border Patrol doesn't have the resources to do the job.

We do carry our guns because it can be dangerous depending on who you meet up with out in the desert. My ranch is 22,000 acres. There are no phones out there. We carry cell phones and radios. But still, law enforcement is hours away if we get into trouble with armed drug runners who don't want to lose their drugs. We don't worry too much about the aliens, they are usually just interested in getting across. But the drug traffickers are another story. They are very dangerous, well armed, and there have been several reports where they have shot at people in the past.

So we do what we do to protect our property and ourselves while we are on it.

Now, what we ranchers and citizens of Southern Arizona want to know is when is the federal government going to fulfill its responsibility and protect our property and our country and staunch the flow of illegal aliens and drugs that is flooding into our country?

Drugs especially need to be stopped, and the current effort to do that isn't working. Many parts of Arizona have just been designated High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas. About a month ago the Phoenix Police Department found, by accident, a half billion dollars worth of cocaine, 2,300 pounds. That's over a ton in just one place, and by accident. We all know what a scourge drugs are on our children and our communities and our country. This drug flow has to stop, and that means we need reinforcements on the border, to act as a deterrent to these drug smugglers.

Let me tell you what the response has been to all the news coverage we have all been getting in the Douglas area. I have gotten many phone calls from all over the country from people who, mostly, tell me to keep up the good job. I have also learned that it is possible that Attorney General Janet Reno and the Justice Department is going to investigate me to see if I violated any civil rights of the illegal aliens and drug runners that I have turned over to the authorities.

They want to investigate to see if any civil rights were violated? Ladies and gentlemen, my property rights were violated, and still are on a daily basis. My employees are threatened. My water tanks have been drained, threatening my livestock. The desert looks like a garbage dump where they come through. And then again there are the drug dealers. I want to ask you congressmen today, ''Whose rights are being violated here?'' Why is the Justice Department, the very same agency who has failed in its responsibility it is to protect our borders, now investigating those who have to take personal responsibility to protect themselves?

I have been out of the country for the past several weeks, we haven't even been home yet. But I understand there has recently been some small activity going on in Douglas. 47 new Border Patrol agents have been assigned there? Well, that is a start. But I can tell you now, it is not enough. We need a real commitment from the federal government to fulfill its responsibility to protect our borders. We need a visible, serious deterrent down there.

I personally favor putting the National Guard or the Army on the border, to deter the illegals and drug runners. I know that both Senators from Arizona have sent a letter to Attorney General Reno saying they don't favor that. Well it makes sense to me. We are currently spending billions of dollars protecting other nation's borders. For the past 50 years, from Korea, to Kuwait to Kosovo, we have spent trillions of dollars and put hundreds of thousands of American troops in harms way protect other nation's borders. I say it is time to use our national defense, just a little bit of our national defense, to protect our borders and our citizens from illegal immigration and the drug traffickers, who threaten the future of our country and the lives of our children.

Thank you very much for inviting me here to speak to you today. And if any of you wish to come to Arizona to see first hand what is happening, I will be happy show you around. Thank you.

House of Representatives, Committee on the Judiciary
Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims
Washington, DC
June 10, 1999

President William Jefferson Clinton
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20500


Dear Mr. President,

The situation along the southwest border continues to deteriorate. The quality of life of legal residents is being seriously eroded because of the failure to interdict illegal immigrants and drugs between our ports-of-entry. The uneven enforcement of U.S. laws and selective regional enforcement creates a moving sieve for these illegal activities.

When the Border Patrol reinforces one area, illegal penetration shifts to the undermanned areas. When the Federal Government fails to meet its enforcement obligations, the result can be a clear danger to border communities and residents.

In 1997, Congress authorized and appropriated funds for 1,000 new Border Patrol officers per year. To date only 300 positions have been added along the southwest border.

In Fiscal Year 1998, there were 782,549 apprehensions in Texas and 485,820 in California for a two-state total of 1,268,369. That number, large as it is, does not include apprehensions in Arizona and New Mexico. While estimates as to the percentage of illegals the Border Patrol catches vary, all agree it represents only a small percentage of the total.

The situation has taken a turn for the worse in Texas. Drug dealers are becoming more active in dealing with illegal immigrants. The risk to all has heightened. By way of example, recently in Eagle Pass, TX an off-duty agent from the D.A.'s office participating in a federal (DEA) drug task force shot at a group of illegal immigrants severely injuring one of the crossers.

Disrespect for the integrity of our border peaked with the recent mass illegal crossing at Douglas, AZ with 600 simultaneous entries. What a sad commentary on the current state of affairs that when Border Patrol officials responded to questions about the circumstances, they described the Douglas situation as being similar to the start of a 10K run!

Our biggest fear is becoming a reality: people are beginning to take the law into their own hands. Property owners in rural areas fear for their personal safety. Ranchers are arming themselves to protect their lives, families, and property. It is imperative that the federal government, in coordination with local and state entities take corrective measures before more serious problems result.

It is commonplace to see videos of illegals darting in between cars in freeway traffic, putting their lives at risk. The Border Patrol, of course, attempts to pursue these illegal crossers in as safe a manner as possible, but no one can be sure what determined people will do. The situation is further exacerbated, as many undocumented individuals in the U.S., out of fear of deportation, do not denounce the abuse they endure from employers who force them to work in sub-standard conditions often for less than the minimum wage.

The answer is not to place armed military troops along the border. Regular Army and National Guard soldiers are not properly equipped or trained to provide the necessary services. Their training and mission are geared toward armed conflict, not customer service and law enforcement.

The border needs immediate relief via the deployment of enough trained Border Patrol officers in Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico to adequately, effectively and humanely respond to the severity of the problem. Simply shifting Border Patrol officers around in patchwork enforcement efforts is not the answer. We need to blanket the areas between our ports-of-entry with well trained Border Patrol officers with adequate support, equipment, and technology.

As a complementary effort and in hopes of reaching a long-term solution to the problem, the BTA has long advocated the deployment of more resources to enforce laws that penalize employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. It is jobs that attract the illegals.

In addition, we should continue to facilitate the entry of legitimate visitors and immigrants to the U.S. For this reason, the BTA continues to support full staffing at the ports-of-entry for INS and Customs. We also work extensively with various levels of both the public and private sectors in Mexico to promote economic development, education and job growth.

The BTA also supports the ''Border Patrol Recruitment and Retention Act of 1999'' (S 912) introduced by Senators Jon Kyl and Kay Bailey Hutchison and cosponsored by Senators Domenici, McCain, Gramm, Bingaman, Hollings, Abraham and Feinstein. This legislation, currently before Congress, is aimed at raising the salary of Border Patrol officers to help in retention efforts. Many of these officers, particularly those that are highly experienced, are leaving for better paying jobs with other federal, state, or local law enforcement agencies.

Local officials do not have the resources or training to stem the tide of illegal immigration and the flow of narcotics. On behalf of the Border Trade Alliance, we again ask that you deal with this pressing problem immediately by developing a strategy for the southwest border which addresses these very severe needs.

We also take this opportunity to again offer our special knowledge and familiarity with the border environment and the residents of the region in seeking workable solutions to this ever-escalating problem. 

Sincerely,

Susan Kohn Ross Chair
Ports of Entry Committee 

CC:
Southwest Border Congressional Delegation
Senator Christopher ''Kit'' Bond, Chair, Senate Appropriations VA-HUD Independent Agencies Subcommittee
Senator Barbara Mikulski, Ranking Member, Senate Appropriations VA-HUD Independent Agencies Subcommittee
Senator William Roth, Chair, Senate Finance Committee
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Ranking Member, Senate Finance Committee
Senator Spencer Abraham, Chair, Senate Judiciary Immigration Subcommittee
Senator Edward Kennedy, Ranking Member, Senate Judiciary Immigration Subcommittee
Representative James Walsh, Chair, House Appropriations VA-HUD Independent Agencies Subcommittee
Representative Alan Mollohan, Ranking Member, House Appropriations VA-HUD Independent Agencies Subcommittee
Representative Lamar Smith, Chair, House Judiciary Immigration and Claims Subcommittee
Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking Member, House Judiciary Immigration and Claims Subcommittee
Laura Baxter, General Counsel, House Judiciary Immigration and Claims Subcommittee
Doris Meissner, INS Commissioner
Gustavo de la Vina, Border Patrol Chief
Governor Gray Davis
Governor Jane Dee Hull
Governor Gary Johnson
Governor George W. Bush 

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Foster, we will resume with your testimony, which I suspect is getting toward the end. Is that correct?

Ms. FOSTER. Yes.

Mr. SMITH. We will recognize you. You can proceed.

Ms. FOSTER. I spoke of being on the PBS NewsHour Jim Lehrer on the Immigration Amendment Bill earlier. As a proponent of the bill, I appeared on the Jim Lehrer NewsHour with Congressman Gallegly. The opponents appeared on the show were Congressman Xavier Becerra and Los Angeles School Board member David Tokofsky.

Two days after the show aired, the Los Angeles Unified School District and the teachers union, United Teachers, Los Angeles, circulated throughout the campus and the community hate mail referencing the program and calling me a liar and a Nazi.

Despite requests from State and local officials, organizations, individuals, my district and my union took no steps whatsoever to either investigate or end the hate campaign against me during the 5-week period I was away from the school. That is because May and June are vacation months on the year-round schedule for my students and me.

Our first day back, July 1, my students were getting into verbal fights with teachers who were telling their classes Mrs. Foster is a racist and into physical fights with students who believed these teachers. Fliers were widely circulated on campus to students and teachers that read: ''Ezola Foster is using her job to build racism with lies. Foster shouldn't teach at Bell or anywhere.''

I had to have a police escort from campus. I received a death threat from a notorious Mexican gangster student. July 2, 1996, was the last day of my teaching career. Even so, the August 1996 issue of the school's newspaper carried a front page article presenting me as a racist. The editorial page contained an editorial referring to me as a racist and a Nazi. And it was written by one who identified herself as a member of the Communist Progressive Labor Party.

Underneath this article of this newspaper in an American public school was listed the board of advisors for this school's newspaper. And just to name you three of these advisors, California State Assembly member Martha M. Escatita; Los Angeles school board member who is now the president, Victoria M. Castro; and Southern California director of the ACLU, Ramon Ripsten.

All of this action against me because I simply said what I saw, that a double standard exists for American students and illegal immigrant students; that the emphasis on cultural holidays that the illegal immigrants celebrate has created resentment with American citizen students; and that racial violence is many times the result. And this is well documented year after year after year.

There are reports of racial violence during the Martin Luther King, Jr., holiday or against blacks and Mexicans and again for the Cinco de Mayo. It is well documented. That the overwhelming number of illegal immigrant students has swelled California schools threaten to collapse what was once the best public school system in the country.

For speaking truths, I was attacked professionally both at school and in the media. And ladies and gentlemen, all of this is the truth.

I am asking you, the Congress, do the business of the American people and take the steps that are needed. We talk about reform in the INS; we talk about enforcing the law. If I may suggest to you, if we really want to do the business of the American people, we would take the INS and put them at entrances of our airports and our water ways and we would take our military from Kosovo and put them on Mexico's border. That is what we need.

I am closing.

Mr. SMITH. Just a minute, Ms. Foster. As I mentioned a little earlier, if you all could restrain yourself despite your agreement with the witness's testimony, we need to conduct this hearing as quietly as possible.

Ms. Foster, we need to move on to the next witness. Would you conclude your remarks.

Ms. FOSTER. Certainly. I conclude by asking the Congress to act immediately to solve this problem and to protect our borders. I ask you to do it for the country, to do it for our sovereignty, and most of all, do it for the children. Thank you very much.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Foster. I should note that 2 1/2 or so hours ago we actually cast a vote on the House Floor on an amendment that allowed the military to serve in a back-up capacity to our law enforcement officials, and that amendment did carry.

Ms. FOSTER. Good.

Mr. SMITH. It was a timely statement for you to make. Again, I say to those in attendance, restrain your applause, if you will, until we finish.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Foster follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Ezola Foster, Retired School Teacher, Los Angeles, CA, Americans For Family Values

Thank you Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you on the issue of illegal immigration.

My name is Ezola Foster. I am President of Americans for Family Values. In accordance with House Rule XI, clause 2(g)(4), both I, Ezola Foster, personally, and the organization have neither sought nor received ''any federal grant, contract, or subcontract'' in the current and preceding two fiscal years or at any other time.

My presidency has brought me in contact with various neighborhoods across America. I have lived all my life in the Negro community, the last half of which has been in South Central Los Angeles. Today, I reside in an area labeled the ''barrio.'' Therefore, I can easily attest to the impact of illegal immigration on the so-called ''minority'' neighborhoods.

However, today I will testify as a teacher who witnessed, firsthand, the harmful effects of illegal immigration on America's children. And I was forced from the teaching profession for talking publicly about it.

My testimony is based on 33-years experience in the Los Angeles Unified School District serving as both classroom teacher and in administrative capacity.

In 1960, I received a Bachelor of Science Degree in Business Education, Texas Southern University, Houston, TX; 1973, I received a Master of Science Degree in School Management and Administration, Pepperdine University, Malibu, CA.

Among credentials received are Life Teaching Credential for the State of Texas, Life Teaching Credential for the State of California, and Pupil Personnel and Guidance Counselor Credential, State of California.

Of my 33-years teaching, 21 were in a so-called ''black ghetto'' and 11 were in a so-called ''Mexican barrio'' at schools in which America's children are most harmed by those who break our immigration laws.

My teaching experience began in 1963, at David Starr Jordan High School in the Watts area of South Central Los Angeles. Enrollment was made up primarily of children living in the 4 government-housing projects surrounding the school. At that time, enrollment was predominantly America's Negro children.

Today, enrollment is still made up primarily of children living in the 4 government-housing projects surrounding the school. Currently, enrollment is predominantly Mexico's children.

Children from El Salvador, Guatemala, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Mexico are classified by House Management and Budget Office as Hispanic.

From July, 1985, to July, 1996, I was a teacher at Bell High School in the City of Bell. Enrollment was 89.8% Hispanic. For the school year 1992–93, it was 96.8%; 1993–94, it was 97.8%; and 1994–95, the last year I received the school's Accountability Report, it was 98.0% Hispanic.

The proximity of Mexico to California, and the corrupt governments cooperating on illegal immigration, make children from Mexico the largest number of both; Hispanic students and illegal alien students in the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Morris.

 
[The prepared statement of Mr. Morris follows:]
 

Thank-you Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. My name is Dan Morris and I live in Rogers, Arkansas in Benton County in the northwest part of the state. I am President of Americans for an Immigration Moratorium.

I have seen and experienced how mass immigration, both legal and illegal, hurts American citizens by increasing crime, increasing taxes and seriously compromising the quality of our children's public school education.

In 1988 I moved my family from Albuquerque, New Mexico to the NW corner of the Arkansas Ozarks. We left Albuquerque because of an increase in violent crime and home robberies invasion robberies perpetrated largely by illegal aliens.

After much searching for a community that I could safely raise my children in, I discovered a region that was largely free of serious, violent crime, Northwest Arkansas. We moved there and it remained relatively crime free from 1988 until the about 1994. Then in 1994 a wave of immigrants, primarily from Mexico began arriving to take jobs in the poultry industry.

The Poultry Barons, the Chamber of Commerce and other employers of cheap, immigrant labor tell us that the immigrants are good for us and good for the economy. They tell us that cheap immigrant labor provides us with lower priced products and cheaper chicken. They are so addicted to cheap immigrant labor that they constantly advertise for it in Mexico. One problem is that these ads attract both legal and illegal immigrants looking for jobs.

It soon became apparent that my community was being overrun by this wave of immigrant workers, many of whom were in the country illegally. The Chief Border Patrol Agent in charge of the Little Rock Office has stated that based on their analysis between 60% and 80% of the workers at the area's poultry plants are illegal aliens. The numbers are stunning.

A good example of the sheer numbers of immigrants flooding into my community can be demonstrated by the ''English as a Second Language'' numbers in the Rogers Public School System which has between 9,000 to 10,000 students. In the 1991–1992 school year there were only 63 students who required English as a Second Language instruction. In 1996 Rogers Public School's system had an ''English as a Second Language'' load of over 1,600 students. From 63 to 1,600 ESL students is a 2,500 % increase in just four years. This is staggering and it gives you and indication as to how the demographics have changed in my community.

What has been the impact of this mass immigration into my community?

It can be broken down into three areas.

1. Increased Violent Crime;
2. Tremendous increase in Illegal Drugs;
3. Rapid, recognizable deterioration of the public schools.

We saw an area that was virtually devoid of violent crime that is now frequently subjected to immigrant gang shootouts on public streets or in crowded apartment buildings. Two Shootings in the past six months resulted in the deaths of Salvadoran and Mexican nationals.

Between December 1998 and March of this year the Rogers City SWAT Team has been called out six times. I can't remember the SWAT team coming out more than twice in the last five years. In one recent SWAT confrontation an illegal alien, who had a long criminal history as a sexual predator, held off police for 9 hours with a Chinese made assault rifle in a residential neighborhood.

The police have had to frequently intervene between rival gangs of criminal immigrants from Mexico and El Salvador.

We have been targeted as a new market for illegal drugs from Mexico. Methamphetamine, Cocaine and marijuana are now being imported into my community in quantities larger than ever before.

In January of this year a local, state and federal drug task force named ''Operation Day Care'' arrested 30 drug dealers—most were Mexican nationals—most were illegal aliens. It was called ''Operation Day Care'' because of the drug dealers' practice of hiding drugs in children's clothing or bringing children to the scene of drug sales.

Our Public School System has been overwhelmed by teaching in two languages: English and Spanish. According to one school superintendent, most of the immigrant children are two to three grades behind for their age. This slows down the whole teaching/learning process and citizen children are suffering from it.

As the father of two children in the public schools, I feel that American children are being denied the quality education they might otherwise receive. A child has only one chance to get a good education. Mass immigration is denying them that chance because despite the best efforts of the teachers and administrators, the school's resources are overtaxed.

I believe that most citizens in Northwest Arkansas would gladly pay a little more for these products—If we could return to a safe , less violent, less drug infested community. I believe that most Americans would agree.

And, the cheap labor argument, I believe, is false economy anyway. If you deduct the cost of taxes paid to provide immigrants with free medical care, food stamps, rent subsidies, free education, increased law enforcement, court costs, translators, jails, prisons and other government mandated give-aways, you have to conclude that that chicken isn't very cheap, after all! Thank you for inviting me to speak to you today.

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Walsh, we are going to go to you; but I have to take note that we just have been given a copy of your testimony.

Ms. WALSH. I was asked to——

Mr. SMITH. Turn on your mike if it is not already on.

Ms. WALSH. I was asked to speak before the committee yesterday, so we did—we couldn't get it here. There was some over there. I guess they are all taken.

Mr. SMITH. Well, apparently you gave them to the media but not to the committee. So we are happy to have a copy now.

Ms. WALSH. You have a copy of it now?

Mr. SMITH. We do. I am sorry you weren't asked to testify before yesterday. We have known of this hearing for a couple of weeks, and I realize that is not your fault.

Ms. WALSH. Well, right.

Mr. SMITH. But please proceed. Thank you.


Statement Of Selena Walsh, Director Of Policy And Communications, League Of United Latin American Citizens

Ms. WALSH. Chairman Smith and Congresswoman Jackson Lee and members of the subcommittee, it is a privilege to have been invited to testify before you today regarding issues pertaining to illegal immigration.

My name is Selena Walsh, and I am director of policy and communications for the League of United Latin American Citizens. Founded in 1929, LULAC is the Nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization for Hispanics. With several thousands of members and over 600 councils nationwide, LULAC works to promote the education attainment, economic condition, political representation, and protection of civil rights for the Hispanic community.

Before I continue, I would like to take a moment to share with you a brief history of and the reasons for its formation. As many of you may know, in the late 1800's active U.S. annexation of nearly half of Mexico, approximately 77,000 Mexican citizens found themselves living in a conquered land.

Although the treaty Guadalupe Hidalgo signed in 1898 claimed this group as U.S. citizens, this treaty's intentions, not unlike the many other treaties of that time, were not realized. Some Americans had a difficult time viewing the Mexican American as an equal citizen rather than a foreigner.

Despite the treat—despite the treaty, their land and political power was stripped from them when lynchings were as common as the signs posted saying no Mexicans allowed.

Courageous Mexican Americans formed small organizations to end the inhumane treatment of Hispanic citizens. The founders of LULAC were interested in claiming stake and full citizenship for all Hispanic Americans and demanded that Hispanics be accorded all the same rights and privileges as other U.S. citizens.

In Harlingen, Texas, in 1927, three small Hispanic organizations actively defending the inhumane treatment of Hispanics found the need to unite under one title and one set of objectives. They were the Order of the Sons of America, the Knights of America, and the League of the Latin American Citizens.

In February 1929, the three organizations united, agreeing to call this new organization the League of United Latin American Citizens. From this point on, the LULAC began to fight to preserve the principles under which our great country was found, that all individuals regardless of race or creed be treated as equals as prescribed in our Constitution, a position Hispanics have courageously lived up to, as no other community in the United States has received more Medals of Honor for fighting U.S. foreign wars. Although some of these U.S. soldiers were not full citizens, they were risking their lives for the sake of the country they believed in.

Among the many Hispanic heroes is Silvestre Herrera who received the Medal of Honor for Bravery in 1945 when he made a one-man frontal assault on an enemy strong point and captured eight enemy soldiers. As his platoon resumed its advanced, Herrera disregarded the danger of exploding mines to attack another enemy in placement. He stepped on a mine and had both feet severed.

But despite the intense pain and unchecked loss of blood, he pinned down the enemy with rifle fire until his unit skirted the mine field and destroyed the enemy, according to the citation. He was later quoted as saying, I lost both legs but I kept on fighting on my stumps. I was concerned about my men.

LULAC stands in opposition to any violation of Federal law, including illegal immigration. LULAC supports the sovereign right of our country to carry out Federal responsibilities and to protect our country from the ills that may befall it.

LULAC opposes any legislation that threatens the rights of legal immigrants, including measures limiting legal immigration. We stand against legislation that denies legal residents and naturalized citizens the same benefits due to native-born citizens. We are against any efforts to deny public education to the children of undocumented immigrants and against harsh regulations that unfairly toughen the requirements for citizenship and expand the stipulations that bar admissibility to immigrants.

I would like to quote a report from the Urban Institute, which revealed that immigrants pay more taxes than they receive in public service. Immigrants generate more jobs than they take. In the past decade, immigrants have received less public assistant than native-born Americans. And immigration has no negative effect on African American workers.

The U.S. Labor Department study reached a similar conclusion, asserting that immigrants do not have a pronounced effect on the earnings and employment of the native born. The percentage of foreign born in the U.S. is half what it was early in the 20th century. Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and Israeli all have a greater percentage of foreign born than the United States.

The U.S. has accepted over a million southeast Asians since 1975 and over 116 million Canadians enter the United States each year. It is has been established that 41 percent of the estimated 5 million illegal immigrants in the country are visa overstays.

According to the 1997 Justice Department report, visa overstays represent a more ethnically diverse group. They are harder to identify, and they are generally higher skilled, better educated, and dispersed throughout the economy, which would mean as many as 820,000 of the estimated 2 million illegal immigrants in California are in this category.

Finally, public and political responses to immigration tend not to make the fine distinctions among migrant categories that is, in essence, a substance of policy debate. U.S. immigration laws make sharp distinctions between legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, refugees, assylees, nonimmigrants, and so on.

The worry that all the public concern stimulated by illegal immigration has extended to legal immigration. Further, we are concerned that this skewed image of immigration translates to the public as legal means illegal, and illegal means Hispanic.

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, by looking at me or listening to me you may not have come to the conclusion that I was born and raised in Mexico and that I have a Mexican grandmother who doesn't speak English and has only visited us, unfortunately, two times. I think she is waiting for me to get married.

Now I have had the wonderful opportunity of traveling to now almost all of the 50 States. And during these travels, I have met many friends. And when I meet a new Hispanic friend, I will innocently and curiously ask them where they are from, and I will consistently get a quick response. Ohio. No, I implore. Where are you originally from? And the response may be something like Kansas. After I share with them that I was raised in Mexico, I will then hear, well I am a fourth-generation American. My mother's family is originally from Oaxaca.

Mr. Chairman, it deeply saddens me that fourth-generation Americans, many of whom have lost family members fighting as U.S. soldiers in foreign wars, individuals who do not speak one word of Spanish and many of whom who have never visited their original country of origin, cannot be as proud as I am of their individual heritage.

While the subcommittee continues its important work on developing effective solutions to illegal immigration, as you focus on strategies that uphold the American principles of due process and the fair and humane treatment of all individuals regardless of race or ethnicity, diversity has, in fact, been a blessing for this country and for me personally. Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Walsh.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Walsh follows:]


Prepared Statement Of Selena Walsh, Director Of Policy And Communications, League Of United Latin American Citizens

My name is Selena Walsh, and I am Director of Policy and Communications for the League of United Latin American Citizen (LULAC). Founded in 1929, LULAC is the nations oldest and largest civil rights organization for Hispanics. With several thousands of members and over 600 councils nationwide, LULAC works to promote the educational representation, and protection of civil rights for the Hispanic community.

Before I continue, I would like to take a moment to share with you a brief history of LULAC, and the reasons for it's foundation. As many of you may know, in the late 1800s, after the U.S. annexation of nearly half of Mexico, approximately 77,000 Mexican citizens found themselves living in a conquered land. Although the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo, signed in 1898, claimed this group as US citizens the treaties Intentions, not unlike the many other treaties of that time, were not realized. Some Americans had a difficult time viewing the ''Mexican American'' as equal citizen rather than a foreigner. Despite the Treaty, their land and power was stripped from them, when lynchings were as common as the signs posted stating ''No Mexicans Allowed'' courageous Mexican-Americans formed small organizations to end the inhumane treatment of Hispanic citizens.

The founders of LULAC were interested in claiming stake in full citizenship for all Hispanic-Americans and demanded that Hispanics be accorded all the same rights and privileges as other US citizens.

In Harhagen, TX In 1927, three small Hispanic organizations actively defending the inhumane treatment of Hispanics found the need to unite under one title, and one set of objectives. They were The Order of the Sons of America, the Knights of America, and the League of Latin American Citizens. In February of 1929 the three organizations united, agreeing to call this new organization the Leagae of United Latin American Citizens From this point on LULAC began to fight to preserve the principles under which our great country was founded, that all individuals regardless of race or creed be treated as equals, as prescribed in our constitution. A position Hispanics community have courageously lived up to as no other community in the US has received more medals of Honor for fighting foreign wars. Although some of these US soldiers were not full citizens, they were risking their lives for the sake of the country they believed in.

Among the many Hispanic heroes is Silvestre Herrera, who received the Medal of Honor for bravery in 1945, when he made a one-man frontal assault on an enemy strong point and captured eight enemy soldiers. As his platoon resumed it's advance, Herrera disregarded the danger of exploding mines to attack another enemy emplacement. He stepped on a mine and had both feet severed; but despite intense pain and unchecked loss of blood, he pinned down the enemy with rifle fire until his unit skirted the minefield and destroyed the enemy, according to the citation. He was later quoted as saying. ''I lost both legs, but I kept on fighting them on my stumps, I was more concerned about my men.''

LULAC stands in opposition to any violation of Federal law—including illegal immigration. LULAC supports the sovereign right of our country from the ills that may befall it. LULAC opposes any legislation threatening the rights of legal immigration, including measures limiting legal immigration. We stand against legislation that denies legal residents and naturalizes citizens the same benefits due to native-born citizens. We are against any efforts to deny public education to the children of undocumented immigrants, and against harsh regulations that unfairly toughen the requirements for citizenship and expand the stipulations that bar admissibility to immigrants.

I would like to quote a report ''immigrants pay more taxes than they receive in public services; immigrants generate more jobs than they take; in part decade Immigrants have received less public assistance than native-born Americans; and immigration has no negative effect on African-American workers. A US Labor Department study reached similar conclusions, asserting that Immigrants do not have a pronounced effect on the earnings and employment of native born.''

The percentage of foreign born in the US is half what it was in the early Twentieth century; Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel all have larger foreign born than the US. The US has accepted over a million Southeast Asians since 1975, and over 116 million Canadians enter the US every year. It has been established that 41% of the estimated 5 million illegal immigrants in the country are visa overstays. According to the 1997 Justice Department report, visa overstays represent a more ethnically diverse group, they are harder to identify as they are generally higher skilled, educated, and dispersed throughout the economy. Which mean that as many as 820,000 of the estimated 2 million illegal immigrants in California are in this category.

Finally, public and political responses to immigration tend not to make the fine distinctions among migrant categories that is in essence the substance of policy debate. US Immigration law immigrants law makes sharp distinctions between legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, refugees, asylees, non immigrants, and so on. The worry is that all the public concern extended stimulated by illegal immigration has extended to legal immigration. Further, we are concerned that this skewed image of immigration translates to the public as; legal means legal, and illegal means Hispanic.

Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee by looking at me or listening to me you may not come to the conclusion that I was born and raised in Mexico and have a Mexican grandmother who doesn't speak English and has only visited twice, but it is true. Now I have had the wonderful opportunity of traveling to now almost all of the 50 states, and during these travels I have met many friends and when I meet a new Hispanic friend I will innocently and curiously ask them where they are from. And I will consistently get a quick response, Ohio. ''No'' I implore where are you originally from, and the response may be something like: Kansas. After I share with them that I was raised in Mexico, I will then heard ''well I am fourth generation American but my Mother's family is originally from Oaxaca.

Mr. Chairman it deeply saddens me that the fourth generation Americans many of whom have lost family members fighting as US soldiers in foreign wars, individuals who do not speak one word of Spanish and many of whom have never visited their origin cannot be as proud as I am of their individual heritage.

While the Subcommittee continues its important work on developing effective solutions to illegal immigration, it should focus on strategies that uphold the American principles of due process, and the fair and humane treatment of all individuals regardless of race or ethnicity. Diversity has is in fact been a blessing for this country and for me personally.

Mr. SMITH. Let me correct a couple of statements that you made, then I'll begin my questions. You made a statement that, quite frankly, is very misleading. It is that immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits.

That is a statement that is taken out of context, because if you look only at the benefits received, then on the whole, there are more paid in taxes than benefits received. But the taxes go for a lot more than just social benefits. They go for our defense, they go to highways, they go for a multitude of other expenses.

So if you look at it objectively and fairly, every single study that I am aware of shows just the opposite: that more benefits are received, when you look at all the benefits, than taxes paid.

Let me go to your point about equal rights for illegal aliens. One of our earlier witnesses mentioned the situation in California where illegal aliens pay less in tuition for colleges than citizens who are not residents. And, in fact, illegal aliens are put in the same category as residents. Do you think it is fair for them to only pay what residents pay for tuition?

Ms. WALSH. I actually don't have the figures before me on that. This is the first time I have heard it, so it would be unfair of me to comment.

Mr. SMITH. Forget the figures or the cost. Clearly the case in California is that residents pay less than nonresidents. Do you think illegal aliens should pay the same as residents, whatever that might be?

Ms. WALSH. No. I mean, we are obviously in support of fair and equal treatment of all individuals. And, again, I feel a little uncomfortable responding to the question because that is not facts and figures that I am familiar with, just as the Urban Institute's report that I represented may not be something that you are familiar with.

Mr. SMITH. You said no. I hope you meant that you didn't think they should pay only the same tuition as residents.

Ms. WALSH. I am sorry. I don't understand the question.

Mr. SMITH. An earlier witness said that in California, in a number of schools and colleges, illegal immigrants pay the same tuition as citizen residents, which means they get a better deal and pay less tuition than citizens who are not residents. They get the same tuition as citizens who are in the country legally. Do you think illegal aliens should, in fact, pay the resident tuition?

Ms. WALSH. No.

Mr. SMITH. Okay. Good. Another individual who testified earlier made the point, as has every major study that I am aware of, that many immigrants, particularly illegal aliens, do take jobs away from black Americans and Americans of Hispanic descent. You are probably familiar with those studies. They run across the political spectrum from conservative to liberal. They all come to the same conclusion.

And yet you testified that minorities in our country today were not disproportionately impacted by illegal immigration or some forms of legal immigration. So you disagree with all five studies that have been conducted in last 5 years?

Ms. WALSH. Apparently, except for the ones that I read.

Mr. SMITH. The one study to which you referred was not peer reviewed, which as you know makes a big difference. And the other five studies were. You are welcome to respond.

Ms. WALSH. What we have seen—I am more than happy to read the studies that you have looked at. The studies that I am familiar with and what I can respond to are, in fact, that African Americans have not lost—this is a U.S. Department of Labor report that says the same thing, that African Americans have, in fact, not lost jobs.

In fact, they have received something of a promotion. We are seeing an increase in African American labor in terms of what once was lower service oriented now to security guards and higher more skilled higher wage positions.

Mr. SMITH. I am not aware of any study that confirms that. We had Mr. Anderson testify as to his personal experience a minute ago. We have seen studies conducted in a number of places, including Houston, where the unemployment rate of black Americans is three times the unemployment rate of other individuals.

All the studies of which I am aware have attributed not all but part of that high unemployment rate to the number of illegal aliens and legal immigrants without skills or education who reside in the same local area.

I'm going to come back for some additional questions for other witnesses in just a minute, and I will go to Ms. Jackson Lee.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. I thank the Chairman very much, and I would assume that we might have a second round, Mr. Chairman. So what I would ask—must be a conspiracy here on my microphone, but I am going to keep talking anyhow.

I am going to ask the witnesses, if they would, I am going to be giving abbreviated, sort of yes, no questions going down the row, so I would appreciate it if you would assist me by providing me with yes, no.

Hopefully, on my second we can engage in a philosophical discussion; but, Ms. Walsh, you indicated your definition of LULAC or what its mission happens to be and its origins and its values. Does LULAC promote discrimination against African Americans, Asians, Anglos as part of its policy?

Ms. WALSH. Absolutely not.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Have you had an opportunity to collaborate and coalesce with organizations like the NAACP, the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights, the Urban League, the Organization of Asian Americans? Do you collaborate on issues?

Ms. WALSH. Yes, quite regularly.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Can you give me one issue, for example, where you are promoting the opportunities for minorities as a general and you collaborated with these other organizations?

Ms. WALSH. We are working with the youth loss and the NAACP, the leadership counsel on civil rights.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. On what issue?

Ms. WALSH. On the disproportionate minority confinement issue regarding——

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Incarceration?

Ms. WALSH. Incarceration.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Thank you very much. Mr. Morris, let me say to you that I am a big believer in the agricultural industry, and although I come from an urban community, pretty good record on agricultural issues, and I note that you talk and spoke about the poultry industry. Can you tell me what the hourly wage is for those positions?

Mr. MORRIS. I believe for the starting employee it is under $7 an hour.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Which is very close to the minimum wage. Are you an owner of a poultry organization?

Mr. MORRIS. No, I am not.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And are you suggesting that many of the individuals working in those institutions are illegal aliens?

Mr. MORRIS. Yes. I am quoting a border patrol agent in charge of the Little Rock, Arkansas, office who said based on analysis they did in 1992 and 1993, that up to 80 percent of the employees in those plants are illegal aliens.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Right. I applaud you for that. You are a native Arkansasan, if I'm correct?

Mr. MORRIS. No, I moved from New Mexico to Arkansas.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Okay. Would you have a problem if a community of blacks, African Americans, settled next to you? It was all black people in the neighborhood?

Mr. MORRIS. No. They are Americans. They are free to go anywhere they want, but one of the problems is that illegal aliens come in and take those jobs at lower wages as a result. It does——

Ms. JACKSON LEE. I am going to have an opportunity to share with you, but I am just noting a quote. You are spokesman for Americans for an Immigration Moratorium, and it indicates that this is an organization that deals with immigration issues.

Let me just simply say to you that it is interesting that you would note this problem with employers. I support you in that position, and the question becomes whether or not it is the employer that we need to be looking at as opposed to those who have come for economic enhancement.

Let me also say to you that I would be willing to wager you—we could stand all over this Nation, and I would imagine that there would be huge numbers of individuals in this economy of African American descent that would not be looking to work in poultry factories or whatever they call them.

I have spoken to people who work there, single mothers, and it is some of the harshest working conditions that you would have ever seen. In fact, it is comparable almost to slave conditions, inability to move away from your station, horrible work conditions; and I would think that Africa Americans who have been here now for 400-plus years deserve a little bit more uplift, not to downgrade those who may work in it, but for us to be pitting African Americans and suggesting that these are jobs that are being taken away from them, I would venture to say that what is wrong with inner-city unemployment for African Americans is that the discrimination, racism, doesn't give them the positions and jobs that they would deserve after being here for some 400 years. That is the anger in my community that I understand and I will engage in that and I apologize but I think we are sort of mixing apples and oranges.

I would say to both Mr. Anderson and Ms. Foster, let me just simply ask you about that question of the ability to go after the McDonald's. I think you are right about that issue. That is outrageous and that is corporate policy that should be immediately stopped, the McDonald's.

The issue with you and the school system, I believe you have the first amendment right. I may disagree with you, but if you are a good teacher you need to be able to teach.

Can you respond to that, Mr. Anderson, very quickly?

Mr. ANDERSON. What was that?

Ms. JACKSON LEE. That is that McDonald's should be the one that we should be asking this question about how could they make the distinction in not hiring the young man that you spoke about, the corporation.

Mr. ANDERSON. Yes, ma'am. I agree and we should also go after the illegal alien who was here taking that job.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And we can do that by enforcing the law.

Mr. ANDERSON. Yes, ma'am.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. But the question is the illegal alien does not hire himself or herself, the corporate entity or policy does.

Mr. ANDERSON. I agree.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. We should look to those entities for a response.

Mr. ANDERSON. And to the illegal alien who takes the job.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. We can't look to the illegal alien because they don't hire themselves, but we can look to the corporation who discriminates against any worker who comes there.

Mr. ANDERSON. I would agree with that statement.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee.

The gentleman from California, Mr. Gallegly, is recognized.

Mr. GALLEGLY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I apologize for coming in late and not being a part of all of the testimony that has taken place so far, but I will ask just a couple questions and try to get caught up, and if these have been answered before forgive me for asking, but I do think it is germane that we do have them on the record.

Ms. Walsh, you have testified before our committee before, and I know of your advocacy, and I think that is honorable.

Ms. WALSH. Thank you.

Mr. GALLEGLY. You did make reference to the fact that there seems to be confusion in this country about illegal and legal immigrants. Whoever you want to blame for that, I think the media sometimes is a little careless with not separating the two. But would you say it is a fair assessment—this country being a country of immigrants, America is a country of diversity. We allow more people the legal right to immigrate to this country every year than all rest of the countries in the world combined. Would you not agree with that?

Ms. WALSH. Actually, I probably would need a little more——

Mr. GALLEGLY. Would you say it is a safe assumption that we allow a lot of folks to legally immigrate to this country every year, and it is something you obviously support and many of us do support, legal immigration?

Ms. WALSH. From what I understand, we have a Federal law that actually doesn't support or encourage illegal immigration so——

Mr. GALLEGLY. Again, we are mixing apples and oranges. That is where the problem is. I am talking about legal immigration. We allow more people to legally immigrate to this country, I think probably, than any other country in the world or certainly a lot of folks.

Would you not say that illegal immigration—this is the question—that illegal immigration as we know it in this country, and it is substantial, does possess probably the greatest threat to legal immigration through pressure on American citizens because of mixing the two, saying we should stop all immigration or we should reduce immigration, and illegal immigration is a major driving force for that thought process—would you not say that is a fair assessment?

Ms. WALSH. I would not say that legal immigration should be thrown out because we have——

Mr. GALLEGLY. No, that wasn't the question. I am saying, do you believe that illegal immigration is causing a greater threat to legal immigration because of public sentiment?

Ms. WALSH. Not because of public sentiment.

Mr. GALLEGLY. All right. Thank you very much. Now, on another question, the education system is something that is very near and dear to my heart. It was not long ago that the State of California had one of the finest secondary education systems, public education for State colleges, universities and community colleges.

It is virtually impossible today for my four that have gone through the system and for my friends and others to get through in 4 years under the best set of circumstances, I don't care how smart you are. Can you explain to me how you can justify providing a public education to people that have no legal right to even be in the country, that are taking the positions of those children of ours that we have paid for the institutions, our grandparents have helped pay for the institutions, and our kids are shoved out by those that have no legal right to even be in the country? I would like your assessment.

Ms. WALSH. Are you wanting to know how —what my assessment is of undocumented individuals who attend universities and colleges in the United States and how that affects citizens' fair treatment or access to these universities? I would say that I am not aware of an undocumented individual that was accepted by an accredited university without a visa.

Mr. GALLEGLY. I am running out of time, and this is a very important issue. We all know that there is overcrowding in our State-funded universities today.

Ms. WALSH. You talking about California?

Mr. GALLEGLY. California. Would you support or would you not support people that have no legal right to be in this country to attend these publicly-funded institutions of higher education, not K through 12, when they have no legal right to be in the country to start with? A simple yes or no.

Ms. WALSH. LULAC opposes illegal immigration.

Mr. GALLEGLY. No, I understand. In other words, do you believe we should deny them access to college if it is deemed they are illegal and have them removed from the United States?

Ms. WALSH. By point of reference if they are illegal, yes.

Mr. GALLEGLY. If they are illegal, they should not be in a State-funded college; is that correct?

Ms. WALSH. LULAC is opposed to illegal immigration.

Mr. GALLEGLY. Would you say that just for the record that you believe that if they are illegally in this country, whether you oppose or don't oppose illegal immigration, that if they are illegally in this country they should not be allowed to attend a publicly funded education of higher learning? Yes or no. If you oppose illegal immigration, I think it is fairly simple, but I would like to hear it from you.

Ms. WALSH. Yes, we oppose illegal immigration.

Mr. GALLEGLY. But do you oppose people that are illegally in this country from attending a public-funded educational institution of higher learning above the 12th grade?

Ms. WALSH. If it is not within a program that is registered within a university, absolutely.

Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Gallegly. Did you get an answer to your question?

Mr. GALLEGLY. Yes, sir, I did get an answer.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Gallegly. While we are on this subject of education, Ms. Foster, I would like to go back to you for a minute. You spent 33 years in the education field, both as a teacher and an administrator. What are the disadvantages that you have seen firsthand of having so many people in the classrooms who are not in the country legally?

Ms. FOSTER. Well, certainly illegal immigration ranks number one for the reason that the schools are overcrowded in the State of California. In addition to that, we have great articles—by the way, if you need documentation ability the illegals being admitted, I would be happy to submit it to you, but we have articles galore in the media showing the breakdown, the school facilities, the bathrooms, the lack of supplies.

There is not enough schools that can be built quickly enough to accommodate the influx of students coming across our borders on a daily basis. In fact, just at the end of 1998, L.A. Unified School District received an increase of 15,592 students; and in the past 4 years, 60,000 students. There is no way that we can continue to accommodate this massive invasion that is taking place. Teachers are having a hard time coping with this.

I have also, if I may just quickly address the fact that someone made earlier about teachers having to act as policemen or determine who is illegal or who is not legal. That is actually not the case. Everyone in the school system already knows who is legal and who is not legal, and one of the ways that we as teachers know is because in the schools you have what is called a record room or a homeroom teacher. That teacher's job is to communicate information from administration, schools, to the students and their parents.

I receive and have here a copy of a form. I blacked out the name of the students, but this was given to each teacher, and they are asked to verify with the student if the information is correct. Next to the student name is the date of birth and where they were born.

So when you read in the papers such as we read through in proposition 187 that at Belmont High School there is probably 2,000 illegal students and you want to know where that number is coming from, it is because the schools already know. They know from the enrollment.

Teachers also know. When you have a 15-year-old child to come into your classroom not only not speak English but seem so disoriented, not even probably here long enough, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that this is not an American. If it is, that parent should be charged with child abuse for not teaching that child in 15 years how to speak English in America.

So there are ways that we know these things. The question is not what we don't know, but what are we going to do about what we do know; and I am sure that those of you who have been in this Congress and have been listening to these, you have had enough information.

The problem is, we get bogged down in talking about racism and talking about minority versus majority and talking about everybody's an immigrant and talking about bashing. We are talking about controlling the borders of the United States of America and maintaining our sovereignty. That is what we are talking about, and we have the facts. So, please, let us just act on it.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Foster. Mr. Anderson, you heard my reference to you a few minutes ago regarding the studies that have been conducted. As far as I am concerned, you don't back up the studies, the studies back you up. You have seen the joblessness and the loss of wages firsthand. What is the answer to that? How do we keep this type of immigration from having such an adverse impact on so many members of our society and so many people who are in the country legally?

Mr. ANDERSON. I think the problem here is denial. The elected officials refuse to address the problem. The black elected officials refuse to address the problem. My own congressman refuses to address the problem, and I think the problem is black folks see all minorities as allies, and this is not the case. These people are not here for our common good. They are here for their own good.

Where I don't have any ill will toward anybody, I also want to look out for my race. I am a black American. I have never used a hyphen, but I refuse to turn my back on my race and see what is going on in South Central to my people and let these people come in here and just take over.

I am not going to sit back and watch it, and I think it is a terrible thing, a horrendous thing for anybody to see this going on and say well he is a minority like me so I won't speak up. I don't care where he comes from. The key to this whole thing is stop the denial, stop the alliances of—in other words, he is a minority like me so I can't speak up against him. If this was white folks committing these lynches to us in South Central, what is going on, there would be an outrage in this country.

We have had fire bombs thrown through windows. We have had people's cars burn in the driveway because they happen to move into the wrong communities. We had a lady who moved to East L.A., came to the State from the South, not knowing what East L.A. Was, it was an all Hispanic community.

She wasn't there one day. We had another man who was burned out of his house in Torrance last year. We had five murders in Hawaiian Gardens just because the people were black. This would not be tolerated if this was white-on-black crime, but the fact that these people come here—and it is the numbers, sir. It is the numbers. They come here in numbers.

They build up the Hispanic community, and they get this sense of power against us, and there are race riots in the schools every day in Los Angeles. It never makes the media. The black kids are being run out of the schools every day and told to go back to Africa. It never makes the media. We are having people who are being discriminated against on every avenue of society, economic, schools.

Even in our prisons now they are drawing lines, and our prisoners in California are being beaten and harassed and raped by Hispanic gang members who recently arrived here because of the numbers.

My answer to you, sir, would be to—we don't need any new laws. Enforce the ones we got. If you are illegal, you are just that, you are illegal. And back to Ms. Jackson, who I have the utmost respect for, she asked me should McDonald's be prosecuted. Sure they should, but it is an individual thing. The owner of McDonald's is not the one. It is the man who owns the franchise. He is the one and also the illegal alien who takes the job because if somebody—if I leave my house and leave the door unlocked and somebody goes and takes my possession, I still want that man prosecuted, even though I left the door open.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Ms. Jackson Lee.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I thank Mr. Anderson for his words. I respect him as well.

Let me just ask Ms. Foster, because she has some slight connection to Texas. She went to Texas Southern University and albeit very youthful lady that she is, I know that she mentioned 1963, I believe. Was Houston segregated at the time that you were in or at Texas Southern University?

Ms. FOSTER. No. Just a few years—and I am about to date myself—but a few years before I entered Texas Southern University, it was known as Houston College for Negros.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Right. Was the community segregated during that time frame, the early 1960's?

Ms. FOSTER. In the 1960's, prior to—I left there in 1961, but there was mostly blacks in the community at the time and attending TSU, even though it was supposed to have been an integrated school.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Well, I would like to correct your history a little bit. I know that the school was founded because black students were not allowed at the University of Texas. It was founded because Herman Sweat tried to go to the University of Texas Law School.

So I am not sure what you are saying—the community was segregated at that time. It was not an integrated school. Texas Southern University is where you went?

Ms. FOSTER. When Texas Southern University was known as Houston College for Negros, it was segregated; and then after the NAACP filed a lawsuit to integrate the schools, the Texas legislature decided that the two schools, Houston College for Negros and University of Houston, which were only a few miles apart on the same street so to speak, should merge and become one big university; and instead, it became Texas Southern University, and it remained blacks could go wherever they wanted to go——

Ms. JACKSON LEE. You lived through segregation—because as a teacher I see you can command the attention—and I am going to take back my time. You lived through segregation. Can I just get that——

Ms. FOSTER. Oh, absolutely, segregation——

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And you have seen it get better? You have seen it get better, relations between African Americans and whites. Have you seen it get better?

Ms. FOSTER. I think relations between Negros and whites were much better prior to the 1960's.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Okay. Thank you with that answer then. Let me move forward to make some comments because that certainly gives me pause.

Mr. Anderson, we have a lot that we can agree on, and I appreciate your passion. I would only just say, and take this—because you have been very gracious—take this in the way that it is being offered. Very briefly, I am a student of history and politics, academically, and I am reminded of the immigration early in the 1900's; and I take New York as a microcosm of that.

When the tenements developed, the Irish, the Italians, and others—and clothes hung out over the balconies of those tenements, and food that we didn't understand—when I say we—the Americans that were already there didn't understand and the language that was spoken, and I am reminded by reading, not being present, of the condemnation.

Now, many of those individuals or the way they came was mostly by way of the Statue of Liberty and came giving your tired and your poor and it was a different focus, but they were there and they were condemned, and as they moved throughout the system, things improved.

I say that to you to say this. I am fully with you on illegal immigration. We have got to be able to respond to the concerns. You have heard LULAC say they have got to be able to respond to the concerns. Where I disagree is—and I hope that those who are hearing my voice know that the enthusiasm in this audience is because you have mostly individuals here from FAIR and other organizations who clearly use the immigrant issue in a negative way. I think you are wrong in doing that, and by the shouting of the individual in the audience is evidence that passions rise high, but I appreciate their right to the first amendment.

I am looking for a solution, and for Ms. Foster to say that relations were better in the 1960's and before that and segregated and hostile conditions for African Americans where they could not get jobs and they were only isolated to domestic positions and lynching was prevalent, I am outraged, even though she is my sister. But this is totally outrageous, and it gives me evidence of the, if you will, depth of what she has to say.

I am committed to enforcing our borders. I am committed to finding out a solution for you, Mr. Anderson. I would say that this is heavily weighted toward California. I empathize with you. I don't live in California, but I know that your new governor did not run on bashing immigrants.

Your probably came when you supported Proposition 13 and got no money for your schools, first of all, and so you have a lot of problems that we can't deal with, but you have got me on helping you with border patrol, helping you in trying to deal with the illegal immigration.

You have got me on the violent illegal immigrants who are doing a disservice and perpetrating violent acts, but you don't have me on bashing. You don't have me on some of these bogus arguments about blacks and Hispanics. You don't have me on LULAC bashing, and what I hope to do is that we need all of us to get along.

I don't like Hispanics bashing us, and I don't like us bashing them, and for those in the audience, let me simply say to you I will work with you on every legitimate aspect of making this country a better place, but I certainly won't work on you with this attitude about everybody who has a Hispanic surname or black skin like mine is bad.

Mr. SMITH. Gentleman from——

Ms. FOSTER. May I respond, because I take that as a personal attack. First of all, it is not just to——

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Foster.

Ms. FOSTER. Ebony Magazine says the same thing.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Regular order.

Mr. SMITH. We will give you a chance to respond, but I will yield to Mr. Gallegly, who I hope will yield to you. The gentleman from California is recognized.

Mr. GALLEGLY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to preface my remarks by saying, while I have great respect for my friend the gentle lady from Houston, I do have to take exception with her assessment of Proposition 13 in California.

As someone who was born and raised in an area very near Mr. Anderson in South Central, I was born in the city of Huntington Park. I lived in Walnut Park and went through the public education in the L.A. City school system. So if I am an example of the results of public education, so be it; but the fact remains we are putting hundreds of millions of dollars into public education, hundreds of millions more every year in the State of California than the previous year, and there is not enough money when you consider the numbers that we have that I believe are a direct result, not of immigration, but of illegal immigration.

My own daughter is an educator, is a teacher, and one I am very, very proud of. Do you know how difficult it was for her to get a job—and we no longer live in the metropolitan area—for her to get a job in public education, because she wasn't bilingual? Mr. Anderson, how long have you lived in the Los Angeles area?

Mr. ANDERSON. All of my life.

Mr. GALLEGLY. So then we are speaking the same language.

Mr. ANDERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. GALLEGLY. And we know Slauson Avenue and we know Alameda Street.

Mr. ANDERSON. I will.

Mr. GALLEGLY. And we know Washington Boulevard and we know Firestone.

Mr. ANDERSON. I live near the Coliseum.

Mr. GALLEGLY. Okay. So you live right down off of Figueroa then?

Mr. ANDERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. GALLEGLY. I happen to live in the middle of the curfew zone and work in the middle of the curfew zone, and probably not everyone in this room knows what the curfew zone was, but for those of us who lived in Los Angeles in 1965, we remember. It was almost 35 years ago, and I can tell you right here the images of what took place there are as vivid today as they were in 1965.

You have said some things that are very scary to me and things that I guess in some way I have tried to ignore or believe was not a possibility, but you are talking about another division. You are talking about ethnic divisions. All ethnic divisions are not black and white, but do you believe that there is a concern for problems that are significant in the metropolitan Los Angeles area because of illegal immigrants, the area of racism that is not just black and white? And how do we address that?

Mr. ANDERSON. Yes, sir, I do think there is a problem. In the city of Southgate, which is a small town right next to Los Angeles, a young black man was run home; and he was beat with a board with a nail in it 2 years ago, and his mother was outraged and she went to the school and asked why, and she called the police and she filed suit. It was because he was black. He had milk poured on him, and had his hair rubbed with sand to try to change the color; and he was beat up, and he was a small kid of about 10 years old. This is a common occurrence in Los Angeles, and the denial—I speak again of the denial.

Until we get through this denial phase, we are never going to get anything done. There is no Hispanic bashing here. My best friends are Hispanic. I have white friends; I got friends of all races. It is not about bashing anybody. It is about me being bashed. I am being bashed, and let me say this.

Everybody speaks for the immigrant child. He has many, many advocates, but that 8-year-old black child that I spoke of, and not one person in here has mentioned it since I said it, that 8-year-old child sits in that classroom with bilingual education and gets a half a day's education. And I ask this question of everybody here, who speaks for that child? Who is the voice for the American child when his education comes up short? There are many advocates for the illegal child, but not one, not one for the American child.

Mr. GALLEGLY. Thank you, Mr. Anderson. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Gallegly.

Ms. Foster, I am going to give you a chance to respond because I happen to disagree with the description of any individual or organization that I am aware of in this room today as being immigrant bashing or racist. I think that is an unfair charge, and you are welcome to respond.

Ms. FOSTER. Well, thank you. I just want to point out that in 1979 Ebony Magazine, which is the leading black magazine, if not one of the oldest and the most respected, carried an article with the title, Illegal Aliens, Big Threat to Black Workers, and throughout the six-page coverage, they talked about the problems between the black workers and the illegal alien workers.

Again in 1992, the Atlantic Monthly, blacks versus browns, again talked about the problem between blacks and Latinos and we can go on. The Los Angeles Times, the problems in the Watts community because it has come from being a black to what they call a brown community. There is information all over the place, and to suggest that because we are here talking about it, because we are so hurt and have suffered for so many years and we see our own so-called black leaders who have turned their backs on us.

For example, the NAACP held a convention in Los Angeles. They talked about employer sanctions. In the audience were blacks, delegates pleading for the NAACP to support employer sanctions. Instead, the NAACP decided no, because, and I quote from the article, we made a deal with La Raza. La Raza supports illegal immigration. So if the NAACP supports it, which they did during 187 debates that I had with many of them, then how in the world will blacks get any representation from those who claim to be their leaders?

That is why Mr. Anderson and I are so frustrated. That is why all of these years we have been speaking for our children, all of America's children, but particularly our children because they are caught in the middle. They are told that because of slavery, forever they are going to be crippled. Then they turn around and they are crippled even more because of illegal aliens coming in and getting favoritism over these children.

So, yes, we are hurt and we may sound—I am sure Ms. Jackson Lee may think that I am maybe not very courteous. I apologize if you think that, Ms. Jackson Lee. I am from Houston. I grew up in Houston, Sunnyside, which I believe is part of your area now; and it breaks my heart when I go back there and see the condition it is in and when I left in 1960.

And in terms of relations being better, I thought your question was were relations better now or then. Individually, relations were much better, but since we have gone to group—collective communities, we have taken away the individual right to relate with each other in a decent manner because we have made blacks think that they must belong and support positions that are wrong for our country, wrong for our children, and I am very hurt about that.

And if I offended you, I apologize; but I am quite offended because this is America, these are our children, and to hear our own congresspeople think so much more of the illegals is painful.

Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Foster. Let me thank you all for your testimony.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Mr. Chairman, I have a question.

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Jackson Lee is recognized for a question.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Thank you. First, I would like to acknowledge that we had a hearing in March which examined immigration and African Americans with labor economists. We had one from the National Urban League that the gentleman had done an extensive study and stated that unemployment amongst blacks is down and immigrants are not taking jobs from African Americans. There is data to that effect, although I have said to Mr. Anderson that I support sanctions as relates to our corporations.

Ms. Foster, you cannot offend me. You have the right to the first amendment. I am not offended. I disagree with you, but I will support your right within the time frame to make your comments, and you have done so. I would imagine that the area where you live in California is probably worse than when you came and moved in. That is the price of urban decay suffering under a number of administrations where moneys were denied.

So blame on what a community looks like can be pointed all over, and I would venture to say to you that there are a lot of good people in Sunnyside, Texas, right now and they are doing well in many instances and some not well, and we continue to fight the battles as we have.

I would simply ask, Ms. Walsh—and I thank you for your presentation and I will certainly take your comments under advisement. We do disagree.

Ms. Walsh, some very striking comments have been made—and I think this is a time for you to help us clear it up—and that is, of course, this whole question of pitting one minority group against another. The tragedies of a child sitting in a class who is not bilingual, the tragedies of one group attacking another group, in what way does LULAC—are they aware of that?

And in addition to some of the Federal issues that we can deal with—and I appreciate Mr. Gallegly sharing with me about the enormous burden on the California school system. I still hold to the fact, as many have explained to me, that Proposition 13 was an element of decreasing funding. But what does LULAC do to help bring people together and to stop sort of the pain that you hear that is occurring?

Ms. WALSH. We are very familiar with the pains of isolation and discrimination. We work very hard to work with a majority of different groups to ensure that this American community is better off overall for everyone working together in harmony.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. You have constructive programs that help Hispanics. Obviously you stated on the record you are against, or LULAC stands against, illegal immigration. Do you work to effectively help bring together communities of different backgrounds, Hispanic, African Americans, Spanish, Anglos? Do you have a program that specifically relates to that?

Ms. WALSH. Absolutely. None of our programs—LULAC has established many programs along the way regarding educational services, the national educational services center, is open to any individual, group, or ethnicity. We have many members of LULAC who are Anglo, who are African American, who are Asian. You do not have to be an Hispanic American to be a part of LULAC.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And are you sensitive to some of the comments being made by, particularly Mr. Anderson and Ms. Foster? Are there ways that you can help promote the need to address those kinds of painful issues that are going on in a real way, in addition to our legislative initiatives?

Ms. WALSH. Sure. I think it is very unfortunate some of the testimony that they have given today. It saddens me that this is happening in individual locations, and that—I think that the strength in unity is always a best approach. I would encourage LULAC and individual members—and LULAC is very big and strong in California. We can go and visit some of these organizations. We are happy to work with you and visit your neighborhoods and see if we can't help this country be better overall for everyone.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. I will simply close, Mr. Chairman, by acknowledging one point. I started out by offering, hopefully, ways of collaboration. I am glad Chairman Lamar Smith, my friend from Texas, has said we will have some things that we can look at together or have some hearings on some other issues.

I do want to simply say, though, in closing that in addition to the pain that they are experiencing, there are 350,000 individuals who have lived here in this country who now have children who are here who are not engaged in murders and are taxed. They are immigrants who were supposed to be in the immigrant application process under the INS and the INS did wrong. These people are contributing.

I am not going to estimate how many taxes they pay, but they work every day. They haven't taken other people's jobs, and I hope we as a country can review that situation to allow them to again seek legal amnesty so that we don't promote the illegal immigration that these two individuals, this panel has spoken about. It is wrong and if we can collectively work on legal immigrant population, though some want it to be capped, I think we will be better off and we will be having a unified face against illegal immigration, but we can better do this together.

I hope we will have an opportunity to have the legal amnesty restoration act heard and passed in this United States Congress. I thank the Chairman very much for his kindness.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee.